What are the absolute essentials to a good full swing

[jbrunk]

Re: What are the absolute essentials to a good full swing

in number one you say good knee flex, actually as little as necessarry is best


By "good knee flex" I meant that you have to have some and keep it throughout the swing, mainly to avoid straightening it on the backswing. I was just trying to be concise in my comment.

As far as the club in the palm idea (apparently advocated by Hogan), I haven't read his book. I tend to lean toward the David leadbetter School of thought on most swing items.

[Theologic]

Re: What are the absolute essentials to a good full swing

Can I play devil's advocate?

If grip was so important, why could Moe Norman grip it in his palms?

If stance was so important, why can the pro's hit it off of every hill and dale, where you can't get a consistant stance?

If the swing plane was so important, why can a horrible swing plane like Furyk live and prosper?

If I remember correctly, it was David Leadbetter in one of his books that said "all things fall away to leave one similarity, IMPACT."

At impact all great golfs have:

1. Straight left arm.
2. Open hips
3. Cupped right hand

(I will admit, however, that stance does seem to have an important bearing as witnessed by research that was done for the British Golf Association back in the early 80's. In essense, high handicap golfers tend to set up in a very inconsistent manner when tested. Pelz makes the same points in his book on the short game.)

Theo "Thought I'd Throw It Out" Logic

[shootin4par]

Re: What are the absolute essentials to a good full swing

theo,
one question for you, hope you get it right cause it is pretty easy

a guy I was playing with today was a scratch golfer who had his hands really low at address which mean he already had some wrist cock at address but teed the ball up off the toe of the driver, why did he tee the ball up on the toe?

[Theologic]

Re: What are the absolute essentials to a good full swing

theo,
one question for you, hope you get it right cause it is pretty easy

a guy I was playing with today was a scratch golfer who had his hands really low at address which mean he already had some wrist cock at address but teed the ball up off the toe of the driver, why did he tee the ball up on the toe?

My answer is "because he felt like it."

One the the early books on the "science" of the swing is by Cochran and Stobbs (Search for the perfect swing). In their research, they report:

"For what it is worth, the results of such a analysis of fourteen top profession golfers showed that on average they stood, for drives, with toes 24.5 inches apart, with the line between toes square to the hole and with ball 33 inches fron this line.... There were no relationships found between the height of the golfer and the width of his stance, nor between height and the distance from the ball, nor between openness or closedness and slicing or hooking. The main difference in stance between good and bad players is that the good player takes up his stance much more consistently."

Thus, I would suggest, what real research exists suggest that what your friend was doing was "measuring himself" to the golf ball so he had a consistent stance. The point of their research is that there is NO magic answer to this other than replication of the distance (when possible).

What's is your answer?

Theo

[shootin4par]

Re: What are the absolute essentials to a good full swing

My answer is "because he felt like it."

One the the early books on the "science" of the swing is by Cochran and Stobbs (Search for the perfect swing). In their research, they report:

"For what it is worth, the results of such a analysis of fourteen top profession golfers showed that on average they stood, for drives, with toes 24.5 inches apart, with the line between toes square to the hole and with ball 33 inches fron this line.... There were no relationships found between the height of the golfer and the width of his stance, nor between height and the distance from the ball, nor between openness or closedness and slicing or hooking. The main difference in stance between good and bad players is that the good player takes up his stance much more consistently."

Thus, I would suggest, what real research exists suggest that what your friend was doing was "measuring himself" to the golf ball so he had a consistent stance. The point of their research is that there is NO magic answer to this other than replication of the distance (when possible).

What's is your answer?

Theo

because he needs too. His wrists are a little cocked making more of an angle between the club shaft and the arms, in the swing that angle cannot be retained so when it is lost that extends the distance away from the body the club head is. So if the club ends up farther away at impact you either A. tee it up more on the toe so you can hit it in the center
B. Hit it on the heal
C. lift your body up drastically before impact

Since you where playing devils advocate, I figured I would do the same
main point being that many pros do unorthodox things at address or during the swing but unless you also know their correction move or set up adjustment, and can execute it, using them as an example might not be a good idea. For the most part, people who have handicaps over ten would be best served using sound fundamentals so they dont have to make so many compensations.

[Simon Woo]

Re: What are the absolute essentials to a good full swing

Simon, how often do you play on a course with good balls, dry fairways etc ?

My distances are measured on the range using range balls and seeing where they fall onto the ground by the signs

[agent99]

Re: What are the absolute essentials to a good full swing

in number one you say good knee flex, actually as little as necessarry is best


By "good knee flex" I meant that you have to have some and keep it throughout the swing, mainly to avoid straightening it on the backswing. I was just trying to be concise in my comment.

I have noticed that several good players have their knees wide apart at address - The lower legs below the knee are almost directly over their feet and their is just a hint of knee flex. This seems to be maintained on the backswing (right knee does not straighten) and only on follow through does left knee straighten.

I have been including this "splaying" of the knees in my setup checklist and it seems to help me a lot.

[Theologic]

Re: What are the absolute essentials to a good full swing

I have noticed that several good players have their knees wide apart at address - The lower legs below the knee are almost directly over their feet and their is just a hint of knee flex. This seems to be maintained on the backswing (right knee does not straighten) and only on follow through does left knee straighten.

I have been including this "splaying" of the knees in my setup checklist and it seems to help me a lot.

Actually, I would venture that almost the majority of pro's at impact have their left leg straight. Attached is a picture of Yockey (to give the women some time.)

However, you comments on the splaying of the knees is correct. This is to increase the so-call "X Factor" which is the offset between the hips and shoulders. However, you don't need this at impact, only preload.

Theo "Don't Listen To Me, I Just Shot A 110" Logic

Theo

[mont86]

Re: What are the absolute essentials to a good full swing

My distances are measured on the range using range balls and seeing where they fall onto the ground by the signs

Now that is a scientific approach.

[shootin4par]

Re: What are the absolute essentials to a good full swing

so Theo "dont listen to me I just shoot 110" logic
what did you think of the resons why he set up that way?
btw, do you really shoot 110?

[msklar92]

Re: What are the absolute essentials to a good full swing

i am in the middle of reading Hardy's book. I am beginning to believe that there are different fundamentals for the type of swing you have, especially the setup.