Greg Norman's, "The Secret"

[Simon Woo]

Re: Greg Norman's, "The Secret"

both hands look a little weak to me, Tigers or Hogans book has a good description, anyone know where to see a good grip online

Roger that. I think I was working with a stronger grip, but the weaker grip has slowly crept back into my game (because it just feels more comfortable that way I guess). Another item to keep working on until it becomes natural.

right wrist should not be cocking much in the swing

Hmm was that obvious from this pic? Anyway yep this was before I realised 2 days ago that an uncocked address really helps the backswing and position at the top!

what do you mean picking the ball cleanly? Please clarify your intention when hitting the ball because with irons you are supposed to smash that little white piece of **** into the ground

Oops sorry I guess it was a poor choice of words. I basically wanted to say that I'm not getting good contact when I try to mimic the impact drill's impact position. I think this is another major change which will take some time to get used to.

you say you wish we had this discussion earlier, if I knew 3 years ago what I know now, I would not still be shootin4par, I was close last month but putted terrible, 3 3 putts

That's comforting to hear. I was already beginning to wonder what the he** I've been doing in the past 12 months

[mariner]

Re: Greg Norman's, "The Secret"

I found it good for chipping and pitching, but it didn`t stop my wrists doing what ever they want to on the full swing, then I stopped using it.
I`ll have another go and see how it feels.

[Timothy Slaught]

Re: Greg Norman's, "The Secret"

Hello:

Let's not forget about the left hand in all of this. If we can agree that the left hand and wrist must be straight, firm and flat at impact in a correct golf swing, in what other position, than bent, should the right hand be? Photos abound of this position by top pros and they all look very similiar. One of the few occurances in the swing when they do.

Impact is occuring far to quickly to measure this by our physiology but very soon after impact this hand position is reversed. The left becomes cupped and the right releases it's cup into the follow through.

[shootin4par]

Re: Greg Norman's, "The Secret"

Hello:

Let's not forget about the left hand in all of this. If we can agree that the left hand and wrist must be straight, firm and flat at impact in a correct golf swing, in what other position, than bent, should the right hand be? Photos abound of this position by top pros and they all look very similiar. One of the few occurances in the swing when they do.

Impact is occuring far to quickly to measure this by our physiology but very soon after impact this hand position is reversed. The left becomes cupped and the right releases it's cup into the follow through.

true, true

[irhyper2]

Re: Greg Norman's, "The Secret"

Hello:

Impact is occuring far to quickly to measure this by our physiology but very soon after impact this hand position is reversed. The left becomes cupped and the right releases it's cup into the follow through.

I hit balls today on the range working on my shoulder turn. I have always had a problem with not finishing my swing, and also I feel like I swat at the ball (which is what happens if one does not maintain the cup in the right wrist. I had a lesson a few months ago, and the pro told me that if I got thru the ball (finish my swing), that would cure the "Swat".

Today I worked on a full shoulder turn, as well as the coil with the torso. I found that when I coiled and ROTATED, not tilt, my shoulders, wonderful things happened.
1. I did not come over the top, and pull my shots, which has also been a problem.
2. I got thru the ball a LOT better.
3. I did not feel like I was swatting.
4. The ball went a hell of a lot farther and straighter.

HARd to believe that coiling and rotating ones shoulders would have that much effect. Now, if I can just remember to do that on the course maybe the water on #16 will stop attracting my balls.

[Theologic]

Re: Greg Norman's, "The Secret"

I hit balls today on the range working on my shoulder turn. I have always had a problem with not finishing my swing, and also I feel like I swat at the ball (which is what happens if one does not maintain the cup in the right wrist. I had a lesson a few months ago, and the pro told me that if I got thru the ball (finish my swing), that would cure the "Swat".

Today I worked on a full shoulder turn, as well as the coil with the torso. I found that when I coiled and ROTATED, not tilt, my shoulders, wonderful things happened.
1. I did not come over the top, and pull my shots, which has also been a problem.
2. I got thru the ball a LOT better.
3. I did not feel like I was swatting.
4. The ball went a hell of a lot farther and straighter.

HARd to believe that coiling and rotating ones shoulders would have that much effect. Now, if I can just remember to do that on the course maybe the water on #16 will stop attracting my balls.

I'll embarass myself to state something that everybody already knows.... But I still think it is worth mentioning.

The problem is that to have a cupped right hand at impact, just putting on Greg Norman's secret really doesn't solve it. Why? Because there is other things you must do to be in position to have a cupped right hand.

Attached is a picture of a "good golfer" on the right, and yours truly on the left. I am wearing Greg Norman's secret, and if you look closely, you'll see that at impact the elastic is allowing it to bend so I don't have a cupped right hand. (This is one of my WORST impacts photos to make a point.)

The problem is that if your shoulder are not on a steep incline plane, both arms must hang straight down to hit the ball. The green line on the photo shows my shoulder angle at impact 6-7 degrees. The good golfer is around 26-28 degrees. Around 26 degrees is where most of the golfers in my Cswing library live. So if your shoulders don't have this angle, I don't think you have a chance of making your right wrist cup.

(To further show the logic here, on the photo, I've drawn a yellow triangle to show how my shoulders and arms hang vs how the good golfers shoulders and arms hang. Because the left arm is high, the right arm MUST break on the good golfer. One of the "breakages" is at the wrist.)

On the "good" golfer, they are leaning so much at impact that the left arm must hang straight down. To steal from the Golfing Machine guys, the left arm is the "hinge" in good golfers. If the left arm is much higher than the right, the right must "break" in multiple places to become shorter while making impact. I've tried to diagram this on the photo of the "good" golfer. One of the places that the arm breaks is in the right wrist by cupping.

Thus, arriving at perfect impact position is more than "cupping your wrist." It is delivering your body with the right shoulder turn so that you can cup your wrist.

Theo "Been Reading Up On The Golfing Machine Stuff" Logic

[shootin4par]

Re: Greg Norman's, "The Secret"

need some second axis tilt in there so you wont run out of right arm

[Theologic]

Re: Greg Norman's, "The Secret"

Here's some more pictures at impact looking at the angle of the shoulders. Again, being up to a 30 degree slant is not unheard of!

The guy that has a 38 degree angle is Steve Allan. He has the most amazing swing in that if you compare him to anyone else, he pushes it to the absolute limit. He is the example of maximum wrist cock.

Never seemed to do that well, so I would suggest that at some point taking anything to extremes always hits the law of dimishing returns. However, I include him to show that this is probably the maximum angle!

Theo

[Theologic]

Re: Greg Norman's, "The Secret"

need some second axis tilt in there so you wont run out of right arm

Ahhh, I've seen you posting over at Yoda's forum.

You are really turning into a GM guy.

When are you taking the exam?

[shootin4par]

Re: Greg Norman's, "The Secret"

Theo,
dont go studying the golfing machine, you might actually learn how to hit the ball and lower that handicap

[shootin4par]

Re: Greg Norman's, "The Secret"

Ahhh, I've seen you posting over at Yoda's forum.

You are really turning into a GM guy.

When are you taking the exam?

I go on lynnes and Bmans, there are a lot of BIG TIME golf instructors on those forums but you dont know who they are because they dont state their names. John taugt me a lot about it, imperatives, elbow plane, shoulder plane, sweetspot plane, hinging, right forearm pick up, shoulder turn take away, etc, etc. etc.
most all of it comes down to set up, making sure the right wrist cups first, and from there it is pretty basic. Do I care to learn random sweep release and the more technical stuff, at the moment no. I like to go there to get opinions, sometimes I ask questions just to see what others opinions are, and sometimes I have some issues to sort out. My biggest issue is shaping the ball right now because my hands have a lot of feel, if I set up with an open club face to hit fades, my hands will feel the face is out of position and shut it down. Currently working with foot position to achieve shot shaping. With what I have learned already I could help most any golfer right now except some one who is a hitter, even though I can do the hitting stroke very pure with a six iron.
A good amount of those guys really know what is going on, you should learn a lot of things you had no clue of because most other instructors, BIG names included, just dont know. WHen you go there make sure you ask questions for now, maybe in a year you could learn enough to give answers on those forums, dont take that negatively it is just some advice

[Theologic]

Re: Greg Norman's, "The Secret"

I go on lynnes and Bmans, there are a lot of BIG TIME golf instructors on those forums but you dont know who they are because they dont state their names. John taugt me a lot about it, imperatives, elbow plane, shoulder plane, sweetspot plane, hinging, right forearm pick up, shoulder turn take away, etc, etc. etc.
most all of it comes down to set up, making sure the right wrist cups first, and from there it is pretty basic. Do I care to learn random sweep release and the more technical stuff, at the moment no. I like to go there to get opinions, sometimes I ask questions just to see what others opinions are, and sometimes I have some issues to sort out. My biggest issue is shaping the ball right now because my hands have a lot of feel, if I set up with an open club face to hit fades, my hands will feel the face is out of position and shut it down. Currently working with foot position to achieve shot shaping. With what I have learned already I could help most any golfer right now except some one who is a hitter, even though I can do the hitting stroke very pure with a six iron.
A good amount of those guys really know what is going on, you should learn a lot of things you had no clue of because most other instructors, BIG names included, just dont know. WHen you go there make sure you ask questions for now, maybe in a year you could learn enough to give answers on those forums, dont take that negatively it is just some advice

As stated before, I've had a logon at Brian's board for a long time. I bet a nickel before you joined. (I think it was at least 18 months ago.)

My challenge with Homer's stuff is not that it isn't interesting and/or valuable. It is simply that it is very, very complex.

To replay the knowledge gained by Shoemaker, if you take somebody and have them throw a club down a fairway all the engineering stuff from Homer (no flipping, the integrity of the flying wedge, no power leakage) magically appears.

I have simply never bought Homer's book since I had things higher on the priority list.

I'm new to Yoda's board, and his energetic nature has got me re-engaged in understand more of the GM stuff. His video selection is great, to say the least.

Theo

[shootin4par]

Re: Greg Norman's, "The Secret"

theo,
and that is EXACTLY why set up is so important. Add a couple of things to that, like right wrist cupping first, maintaining spine angle, that is why I said that I am not going to the depths of TGM. Also, if you do everthing right, but have ball placement off, out the window goes the good swing.

[irhyper2]

Re: Greg Norman's, "The Secret"

I'm new to Yoda's board[/COLOR], and his energetic nature has got me re-engaged in understand more of the GM stuff. His video selection is great, to say the least.

Theo

What is the link to Yoda? I would be interested in the video selection. Also, when I attempt to cup the right wrist first on the take away, it puts a bow in my left wrist. Is that correct? I guess I've been doing it wrong for so long that it all feels wierd to me. I have a difficult time with Greggs right hand drill in that to get a cup at address, the club shaft has to be really forward of center, thereby de-lofting the club. Can someone send a picture of what the setup looks like?

[shootin4par]

Re: Greg Norman's, "The Secret"

What is the link to Yoda? I would be interested in the video selection. Also, when I attempt to cup the right wrist first on the take away, it puts a bow in my left wrist. Is that correct? I guess I've been doing it wrong for so long that it all feels wierd to me.

If the left wrist is bowed once you cup the right wrist, it could be bacause the left hand grip is too weak. http://www.lynnblakegolf.com