Outside in swing path

[Simon Woo]

Re: Outside in swing path

Oops sorry my bad, trying to squeeze in some posts in between meetings :P What I meant was the folding of the right elbow :P Feels like I'm taking away with both arms relatively straight now...

[pnearn]

Re: Outside in swing path

Oops sorry my bad, trying to squeeze in some posts in between meetings :P What I meant was the folding of the right elbow :P Feels like I'm taking away with both arms relatively straight now...

No the right elbow should fold quickly

[BrianW]

Re: Outside in swing path

Phew! this all sounds complicated so far. Lets consider the swing mechanics.

An outside to in swing path will generally cause the ball to fly high and slice from left to right (it's not a fade).

The normal fault is caused by the downswing being started by unwinding the shoulders, this throws the clubface over the top and outside the path, it also creates a steep swing plane.

You should start the downswing by rotating the hips and dropping the arms straight down while maintaining the same angle with the wrists that existed at the top of the backswing, this will put the club into the correct position to release it through the ball on the correct inside path and plane.

By doing this and keeping the clubface moving down the target line as long as possibe after contact you will create a powerful shot that removes that slice. One more swing thought is to imagine a clock face on the ball, hit through from 4 to 10 o clock. Finally, keep a light grip and relax your arms and shoulders.

Hope this helps
Brian

[pnearn]

Re: Outside in swing path

No the right elbow should fold quickly

Sorry Simon, that was rushed as I had some work to get done! If you use you body to turn the club along that line, keeping the club low to the ground as you turn ( that builds the width, not taking it straight back), then the right elbow has to fold as the body turns and works the club behind you

The key is using the body to turn the arms along this line not using the arms to move the triangle (if that makes sense?). Then when the club is parallel to the ground the wrists start to hinge and work the club upwards as the hips stop turning (building coil)

Use the body to turn along that line until the club is parallel. Keep the club low to the ground as you make this turning motion and imagine the butt of the grip stays pointing to your belly button and only the turning of the belly button will make the club turn with it. Stop when the arms are parallel to the ground. The club shaft should be pointing down the target line across your feet. Club head should be level with hands. Club face should be same as your spine angle (not open or closed). Right elbow should have started to fold.

See the 2nd frame of Appleby here http://content-golf.live.advance.net...lebypanel3.jpg

See how the butt of the club is facing his belly button and the line of the shaft is down the target line. He hasnt got that there with his hands or his arms. He's turned it there

Fron there to get the feeling of the backswing completing cock your wrists up to set the club (cocking the wrists should lift the arms) and then hit through. Should be perfectly on plane at the top and it will seem effortless then when you swing down. Once you get the feeling soften the wrists and swing a buit quicker to let them set naturally. Again in you look at frames 3 and 4 of Appelby in the link, all he is doing is setting his wrists

[Simon Woo]

Re: Outside in swing path

Thanks pnearn. Just to update on my session at the range this morning :

1) Downswing - first move to rotate the hips. Arms just seem to follow down. It's a very new feeling for me because I no longer feel like I'm hitting forward at the ball, but rather it feels like the arms are going downwards and hips do the forward motion instead.

2) Realised that if I raised my hands higher at the top (with the irons), I get very solid contact with the ball. Nice straight shots. This follows part 1 above. If I rotate hips first in the downswing with my current position at the top, the club always hits the ground hard way before the ball. I adjusted this by raising my hands higher on the way up, and really surprised to be getting very consistent clean shots.

[pnearn]

Re: Outside in swing path

Great Stuff Simon. Thats just the feeling you should have. Keep the body turning the arms in the backswing. The higher move you are 'feeling' is probably just you getting width and on plane so thats great

And as you say use those hips to turn the arms back down rather than hitting. Keep at it as thats just the feeling you want. As you practice this more and more you will be able to start turning faster and stay in balance but for now just go slow and groove that feeling in. Arms should feel like thay fall or are pulled down from the top by your chest/hips/legs etc .. the lower body ..(as opposed to you moving them down with your hands/arms)

[Liam Hancock]

Re: Outside in swing path

Hi pro shank,

Put a cushion on the start of your swing path, and keep putting it more inside until it is perfect,

when you are on you are on your downswing try to smash your club down behind the ball, but you won't because your shoulders are turning.

Hope this works well for you,

Liam,

[Simon Woo]

Re: Outside in swing path

Thanks pnearn. The biggest problem in learning this downswing is that there's a tendency for my to hit the mat way before the ball, and also if I try to go faster, I will end up with a terribly open clubface, slicing the ball. But it does feel good when I get it right... Feels like I'm using much less effort to get the ball to go the same distance!

[pnearn]

Re: Outside in swing path

Thanks pnearn. The biggest problem in learning this downswing is that there's a tendency for my to hit the mat way before the ball,

Simon, you are very close!. The one thing left to work on is weight transfer. If you make a lateral move to the left to get on your left side and then turn you will be hitting the ball great. Not getting on your left side is why you are hitting fat. BUT this weight transfer motion is probably the hardest thing to learn how to do. It goes against all your instincts to hit or rotate from the top

Rick Smith talks about thinking of the swing through happening after the ball which I think is a good thought. So in your practice try and feel like you bump the left hip or press down with the left heel and then turn. This move as you know gets you in the 'slot'. As you do this move try and feel 4 things.

1. That this move is slow and in balance - not a violent jerk
2. You hold the angle in your wrists (i.e. dont cast). But dont add tension doing this
3. You hold your arm position at the top. This prevents your brain wanting to start the club down with the hands. Of course what will really happen is that the weight transfer will PULL you arms and the club down
3. You feel your left leg post or lock right around the time that you add the hip turn and torso rotation

The walking or step drills are great to feel this movment. Step, then turn those hips. I talk about this in my next podcast BTW

http://members.cox.net/gregjwillis/LESSON2.htm
http://www.golflink.com/golf-tips/tips/bgs004.asp

[pnearn]

Re: Outside in swing path

Simon

Another drill thats good for this is the bump drill. Take it to the top and then perform that weight transfer movement (either bump the left hip or push down with the left heel). At the same time try and retain the angle (cock and cup) in your wrists. Then stop

You should find that you are now halfway down having done nothing yet with your hands, shoulders or arms. The weight should be on your left side, the right elbow should be close in or even touching your right side. The wrists should still be cocked and and the club head will be pointing 45 degrees or so behind you and inside the hands. From this point if you are still in balance you can go ahead and rotate hard through the ball with either your hips or chest and feel the arms get pulled through

If you do this drill and say bump and hold (bump hips, hold wrists) to yourself over and over again you will feel how to transition and transfer weight

Now to tie this into the other points in this thread. If you rotated and didnt slide on the backswing this move will be really easy. If you swayed on the backswing by not rotating properly you will have to move too far laterally to get back onto the left side and you will both be out of balance and leave your arms too far behind. So - TURN back, bump and hold, TURN through. My swing process in 3 phrases and what I worked for a year to get to!

Let me know if this helps with stopping getting it thin, Simon

[Simon Woo]

Re: Outside in swing path

Thanks! Actually I always thought my main problem wasn't so much the weight transfer, but rather the rotation. My previous downswing was initiated by a lateral shift of the hips, so I think that got me to transfer my weight to the left, but from there I don't rotate my hips but just swing down my arms to hip the ball with my hips and shoulders still relatively straight. But you are right, my new swing now just has me doing the hip rotation as the first move. Thanks for pointing out this is why I could be hitting fat shots (if I don't raise my arms higher at the top).

So, I should be working on a lateral bump then rotation of hips, and then dropping the arms, right? This is my new swing thought, hope to try it out soon!