the waggle and cup

[shootin4par]

the reason the waggle is so important is that if you roll the club face open during the waggle, which is what most people do, you will roll it open on the real swing as well. fanning the club face is something very difficult to recover from. . By ingraining a good waggle we train our rear hand to cup before it cocks. the right and left wrist at address MUST NOT be cocked or the waggle would be more difficult to perform. Also, If the right wrist cups before it cocks, which it only cocks a little, THIS ACTUALLY LOCKS THE RIGHT WRIST IN A CUPPED POSITION WITH NO TENSION INVOLVED TO KEEP IT THERE. IF you cock before you cup YOU WILL NOT BE LOCKED. If you dont beleive this then all you have to do is this drill with no club, which I posted in another thread. EVERYONE who wants to learn needs to take the minute to do this and see for yourselves.

THE HAND SHAKE DRILL

try this and post your results, this is some important stuff to understand and once you do it will make things more simple.

first, cocking the wrist is what makes it move up and down
cupping the wrist is side to did like opening and closing a door

1. rear arm straight out in front of your chest like you are shaking someones hand, now dont move your arm but only cup the wrist as far as you can, hold that position, now uncup as far as you can

2. Rear arm straight out, in front of your chest in the shake hand position, now cock the wrist UP as high as you can , then with the wrist still cocked also cup it back, then from their uncup as far as you can

3. Rear arm straight out in front of your chest in the shake hand position, now first Cup the wrist back as far as you can, now while being cupped back cock the wrist up. now from here dont release the cock in the wrist but try and release the cup

In this drill it may be easier if you stabalize your right arm by holding the forearm with your left hand. Also, the hand should not rotate at all during this

Does this make it a little more clear?

for all you who struggle to get better, learning this is the second biggest thing you can learn, first is setting up correctly.

Remember, cupping the right wrist is ONLY extending the back of the back hand down the target line, there is NO FOREARM ROTATION

so your first move back in your full swing should be CUP THE RIGHT WRIST BEFORE ANY COCKING. If you take away one piece make sure your hand action is cupping first



we got that out of the way, now who wants to learn how to chip instead of chunk?

[jpmonkey69]

Re: the waggle and cup

using MS paint, please draw the "cocked" position and "cupped" positions and upload the pics here!

[shootin4par]

Re: the waggle and cup

using MS paint, please draw the "cocked" position and "cupped" positions and upload the pics here!

not computer savvy, can someone do this? Theo?

[msklar92]

Re: the waggle and cup

look at Greg Willis right hand drill. Compare terminology
The right wrist should be in a cupped position at impact (i.e. the wrist angle is bent in relation to your forearm)- if it is uncupped (or straight) then you have flicked at the ball and your left wrist will be bent instead of flat , or the club head has passed the hands before impact.
Cocking is the same as hinging - the club going up and down.
What I think shooting4par is trying to say, is that if you cup the wrist before you cock it or hinge it, it will naturally lock into place on the backswing, so all you have to do is rotate your body on the downsing, let the arms follow and you should be in the correct impact position.
This is a bit confusing, but I think I have it right.

[shootin4par]

Re: the waggle and cup

look at Greg Willis right hand drill. Compare terminology
The right wrist should be in a cupped position at impact (i.e. the wrist angle is bent in relation to your forearm)- if it is uncupped (or straight) then you have flicked at the ball and your left wrist will be bent instead of flat , or the club head has passed the hands before impact.
Cocking is the same as hinging - the club going up and down.
What I think shooting4par is trying to say, is that if you cup the wrist before you cock it or hinge it, it will naturally lock into place on the backswing, so all you have to do is rotate your body on the downsing, let the arms follow and you should be in the correct impact position.
This is a bit confusing, but I think I have it right.

yes sir, you got it right. did you do the hand shake drill?

[Broadus]

Re: the waggle and cup

Shootin4par,

You wrote that cupping your right wrist is the first move back in your swing before cocking. Are you saying that, after perhaps a forward press, cupping the right hand is the first move in the swing, before you move your arms or shoulders? I have always been confused where the cupping takes place. I have never done a waggle because it made me think to much of slapping the ball. You're making me re-think this.

Bill

[irhyper2]

Re: the waggle and cup

yes sir, you got it right. did you do the hand shake drill?

I started the huge thread about Norman's "Secret", and am still some what confused after some 70 post. Let me say what I think I am hearing:

1. Waggle at address: Is cupping the right wrist by using #1 in the hand shake drill above. This cups the right and bows the left. This is a move of the WRIST only. No forearm rotation, shoulder turn etc. Do this three or 4 times, what ever is your routine. This would probably move the club head 18 inches or so away from the ball, and to the inside.

2. On the take away, or start of the backswing, you simple do the the first part of the waggle drill. I.E. cup the right wrist, and take the club on back with your shoulder rotation and body turn.

Is this correct?

[shootin4par]

Re: the waggle and cup

Shootin4par,

You wrote that cupping your right wrist is the first move back in your swing before cocking. Are you saying that, after perhaps a forward press, cupping the right hand is the first move in the swing, before you move your arms or shoulders? I have always been confused where the cupping takes place. I have never done a waggle because it made me think to much of slapping the ball. You're making me re-think this.

Bill

Hogan stated that the first thing to move in the back swing was the hands. Now there are different types of take aways, but if your first move back is a cup, you will have a MUCH easier time maintaining forward shaft lean at impact because once the left wrist cocks, the slight cock of the right wrist will lock it in the cupped position and it can only be released from that AFTER all the wrist cock is released.

Did you do the hand shake drill, if not do it and report back your findings,

[shootin4par]

Re: the waggle and cup

I started the huge thread about Norman's "Secret", and am still some what confused after some 70 post. Let me say what I think I am hearing:

1. Waggle at address: Is cupping the right wrist by using #1 in the hand shake drill above. This cups the right and bows the left. This is a move of the WRIST only. No forearm rotation, shoulder turn etc. Do this three or 4 times, what ever is your routine. This would probably move the club head 18 inches or so away from the ball, and to the inside.

2. On the take away, or start of the backswing, you simple do the the first part of the waggle drill. I.E. cup the right wrist, and take the club on back with your shoulder rotation and body turn.

Is this correct?

on your point number one. EXACTLY

on your point number two. in the swing you will end up doing what I described in number three, BECAUSE after the right wrist cups in the beginning of the back swing, the left wrist will cock and this will cock the right wrist a little as well which locks it into place. in the golf swing THE HANDS MUST BE TRAINED and a proper waggle does that.

hyper, this is my back swing, cup the right wrist then push with the heel pad of the left. This pushing motion of the left hand rotates my shouders because I am pushing the hand down the target line. this also creates width and gets me coiled. besides those two things I think of maintaining spine angle and that is all there is to my back swing, does not sound too comlicated does it? my down swing is much more simple

[pnearn]

Re: the waggle and cup

So shootin, this cup motion for you is analagous to someone elses swing trigger i.e. a forward press or a kick of the right knee?

Your waggle is merely rehearsing this trigger motion and first few inches of the push back?

[shootin4par]

Re: the waggle and cup

So shootin, this cup motion for you is analagous to someone elses swing trigger i.e. a forward press or a kick of the right knee?

Your waggle is merely rehearsing this trigger motion and first few inches of the push back?

I am not sure what my swing trigger is
my waggle is a rehearsel of what my first hand movement needs to be

[shootin4par]

Re: the waggle and cup

I reworded the drill a little, let me know if it is still unclear

[Broadus]

Re: the waggle and cup

Hogan stated that the first thing to move in the back swing was the hands. Now there are different types of take aways, but if your first move back is a cup, you will have a MUCH easier time maintaining forward shaft lean at impact because once the left wrist cocks, the slight cock of the right wrist will lock it in the cupped position and it can only be released from that AFTER all the wrist cock is released.

Did you do the hand shake drill, if not do it and report back your findings,

Unless I'm missing something, it seems method 3 (cupping before cocking) makes the right hand more stable and less "flippable."

Bill

[shootin4par]

Re: the waggle and cup

Unless I'm missing something, it seems method 3 (cupping before cocking) makes the right hand more stable and less "flippable."

Bill

because it kind of locks it into place?

[Broadus]

Re: the waggle and cup

So it appears.

Do I understand correctly that you can cup your right wrist without cocking your left but you should never cock your left without cupping your right? In other words, cup whether or not you cock?

Bill