Lessons and improvement

[jman100]

Hey everyone

I just posted a reply advising someone to get lessons and it got me thinking how everyone else out there who have got or are getting lessons are getting on? There have been several threads discussing the latest learning tool etc and how people found them and progress they made, improvement in distances etc so I was wondering what about people who have gone the 'lessons from a pro' route. How are they getting on?

Here is my lessons story. I was hacking my way through 5 social rounds a year with left hand low (right handed) etc, you know the type, enjoying being out in the fresh air but not really enjoying the golf until last August. I had just recently given up playing Gaelic Football and I was looking for something to fill the competitive void, so decided to learn this great game. I was starting from scratch, new grip etc so went to my local pro. First lesson, couldn't hit the ball off the mat! I'd say the pro was looking at me wondering what he had left himself in for. But I was determined, kept at it and now 5 lessons later, I am playing to what I would consider a reasonable standard. My last lesson I was creaming the ball with every iron in my bag, the pro was happy with my ball striking and started making slight adjustments trying to get my arms and body working more in sync. Everything went fine for the 1/2 hr but for the last 2 weeks it was like learning to walk again! couldn't hit the ball off the mat, shanking, everything! Sound familiar??? Even tried to play a round and had to come off the course. But anyway, this is the usual way it seems to work after a lesson. Then yesterday, it was like someone switched a light on. My pro was saying the best way to get the feeling was keep at my wedge, keep my back swing along the target line, body slightly open etc but getting my body turned through the ball. Anyway, the lesson etc isn't what I am trying (very slowly I might add!! ) to get to. Straight away I got the feeling, when I hit a few good shots and now can do it with other clubs and I'm hitting the ball better than before, which I didn't think I could. This has been the way it has progressed over the last 9 months.

Is this how others have found it? At what stage do you say, enough is enough for this season and now I want to just play? Because you can't make changes in your swing and play, there has to be a learning time involved. Greg and other teachers, how do ye find it in your students?

Anyway, like others recommending their fav learning video etc I cannot recommend getting lessons more highly. I think it is the best way to go about getting to a level where you are competitive and enjoying this game. Make sure your pro is qualified and most of all listen to what others are saying about them. Talk to someone who is playing to a good standard and has had lessons from the pro, then book up, work hard and ENJOY!

Am very interested to hear what others have to say, sorry for being so long.

J

[Teevino]

Re: Lessons and improvement

Hello jman, hope you don't mind me saying I haven't been to a pro but since no one else has replied here thought I would. I got that "feel" half way through a round about two weeks ago and started hitting the ball really well (for me). Still having some problems off the tee but for a while even my driver was better. Now am trying some new things I've picked up here and am starting to wonder if I'm am loosing "the feel".

I think there is a lot to be said for the natural feeling in a swing that no pro can teach. I understand bad habits can be picked up in that process but I am trying to stay as orthodox in my overall form as possible by reading, talking and observing others. I have seen (as I'm sure all here have) some pretty crazy looking swings that nevertheless get pretty good results. I want to accomplish good result with a good looking, well designed swing.

Having said all that, I am still keeping the possibility of a pro in the back of mind for future instruction. My concern is that even a pro can screw you up if you don't get a good one. So I am still pondering while working on my game through observation, a lot of playing and reading. Scored my lowest round (broke 100) last Sunday mainly due to some great putts and chipping. Gotta get my driver working again.

[Seattlepop]

Re: Lessons and improvement

My golf buddies had been playing for about 10 years and got me to go with one of their old sets. Had fun being out with them, etc. and after a couple times a year for a while, I decided to get serious. I bought my own set (Armour 845U's) and took a beginner's package offered locally with one-on-one lessons. I now recommend to anyone who will listen about the importance of taking some lessons early on to learn the mechanics of the swing. In one year I now beat the tar out of one bud, and have beat the other, better, player the last two times out. I think the importance of lessons lies in the fact that there is nothing intuitive about the golf swing. Your body does things during the swing that watching the pros won't teach you, regardless of how athletic you have been prior to picking up a club. All that range time is wasted IMHO, if you haven't had a pro show you the basics and what to look, or rather feel, for while you practice. I'm a believer. Got to go, tee time is 10:45, gonna kick some serious butt!!!

[Teevino]

Re: Lessons and improvement

I think the importance of lessons lies in the fact that there is nothing intuitive about the golf swing.

How can swinging a club through the air not be intuitive. Haven't we been doin that since the cave days?

[LowPost42]

Re: Lessons and improvement

How can swinging a club through the air not be intuitive. Haven't we been doin that since the cave days?

Swinging things is intuitive. However, swinging a golf club to maximize it's usefulness is far from intuitive. If it was intuitive, we wouldn't have nearly as many hacks as we do, now would we?

[jman100]

Re: Lessons and improvement

Thanks for the replies guys, and of course Teevino, this was not restricted to people who have had lessons, good to hear the other side of the coin. Teevino is right, swinging the club through the air is certainly something everyone can do, swinging it through the air and hitting a ball accurately 250yds on the other hand, not a chance . I take the point that a bad pro can wreck a swing. So can bad advice from a playing partner, on a forum, or bad feedback from a learning device. The one thing I think we can all safely say is, there is loads of bad advice out there!!! lol I just think there is a better chance of getting good advice and feedback from a pro. But I did qualify this by saying to talk to guys playing at a good level who have had lessons from your local pro.

Seatlepop, just wondering when you saying you playing well, what level have your reached in a year? Also, how many lessons have you had, and what frequency were they? I found that anything from 6 to 8 weeks was needed, in the start especially, to master what I was supposed to. Also, most of the time I felt I made improvements in big jumps. I would just suddenly 'feel' what I was supposed to get, like what Teevino described out on the course.

Teevino, you are listening to shootin too in the other threads aren't you? And like me you are finding a lot of what he is saying improving what you are doing? This is what going for a lesson is like for me. Shootin is def right though, setup is a lot to do with the swing, and always good to have another pair of eyes to check it out for you, imho

[Teevino]

Re: Lessons and improvement

Thanks for the replies guys, and of course Teevino, this was not restricted to people who have had lessons, good to hear the other side of the coin. Teevino is right, swinging the club through the air is certainly something everyone can do, swinging it through the air and hitting a ball accurately 250yds on the other hand, not a chance . I take the point that a bad pro can wreck a swing. So can bad advice from a playing partner, on a forum, or bad feedback from a learning device. The one thing I think we can all safely say is, there is loads of bad advice out there!!! lol I just think there is a better chance of getting good advice and feedback from a pro. But I did qualify this by saying to talk to guys playing at a good level who have had lessons from your local pro.

Seatlepop, just wondering when you saying you playing well, what level have your reached in a year? Also, how many lessons have you had, and what frequency were they? I found that anything from 6 to 8 weeks was needed, in the start especially, to master what I was supposed to. Also, most of the time I felt I made improvements in big jumps. I would just suddenly 'feel' what I was supposed to get, like what Teevino described out on the course.

Teevino, you are listening to shootin too in the other threads aren't you? And like me you are finding a lot of what he is saying improving what you are doing? This is what going for a lesson is like for me. Shootin is def right though, setup is a lot to do with the swing, and always good to have another pair of eyes to check it out for you, imho

I must confess I am a bit of a "tightwad" though I have spent more money on golf in the past six months than I have "ever" spent on any hobby in the same length of time. If taking lessons will buy me a better game then eventually I will do that as well. I probably should just go ahead and do it. I'll let you know if and when I do. And yeah there is a whole of bad and contradictory advice out there.

BTW guys I heard your counter argument to "swinging a club in the air" coming from a mile away and of course you are right. Hitting a golf ball "correctly" with it is another story.

[Seattlepop]

Re: Lessons and improvement

[
Seatlepop, just wondering when you saying you playing well, what level have your reached in a year? Also, how many lessons have you had, and what frequency were they? I found that anything from 6 to 8 weeks was needed, in the start especially, to master what I was supposed to. Also, most of the time I felt I made improvements in big jumps. I would just suddenly 'feel' what I was supposed to get, like what Teevino described out on the course.



LOL, I didn't exactly say I was playing well, I said I was beating my non-lessons buddies! I play often enough in the 90's to say I'm a 90's player-well I claim it anyways. Most recent two were 97, and 94. My best front or back so far was a front 9 of 43 and back of 45. Now if I could just put two good sides together...... I won't tell you what I shot today, let's just say it falls under the classification of AAARRRRGGGHHH! Although I did just have my clubs extended 1/4" and regripped w/ midsize, up from standard, plus I hit 450 balls at the range last night trying out the changes and was really tired today, oh, oh, and I walked the course today which is hilly and brutal. How's that for excuses!
Anyway to answer your question about lessons. I took the private lessons two seasons ago, plus I spend February (twice now) in Desert Hot Springs with my friends who have a place on a 9 hole executive course. The pro's there do weekly workshops plus 'clubhouse' competitions. They go out to the big courses with us also from time to time, so I'm lucky in that I have the benefit of the resident pro who is always handy with the occasional tip and pointing out things that he sees. So, its difficult to say exactly how many lessons I've had. I plan on making an appt here shortly tho, for some more one-on-one. I have learned so much about the swing and understand so much more terminology that I need someone to help me put it all together. Trying out all that I have learned from boards like this is fine, but looking in a mirror is just not as effective as having a pro film you and play it back in slowmo explaining what's good and what's bad and how to correct it. I guess I'm just not patient enough to spend the summer experimenting! LOL.
I appreciate fully the comments about 'feel'. The biggest jump, or 'eureeka!' I have experienced is when I took my (then) new 845U's to the range and experienced for the first time letting the club do the work. No hand shock, the sweet spot 'thwok' sound with the ball just souring off the club face, long, high, and straight, just the most beautiful AND ADDICTING event in my short golf career. Gawd that felt good. It still does.

[jman100]

Re: Lessons and improvement

lol Teevino, glad you saw the swinging the club comments coming, would have been surprised if you handn't . The spending money on lessons issue I have dealt with this way, my lesson costs €35, a good club costs €350 and if I can't use it right is worth about €0 to me lol. I only need a lesson about once a month so in real terms only cost €.50 a day. Makes no sense not to have a lesson!

Seattlepop, you are playing some amount of golf, would love to get that many rounds in. Fair play to you. I would prob put myself in the 90's category too. I have broken it 3 times and am trying to make it the norm! lol Hitting 450 balls in one session is for sure an excuse for not playing well the following day. The slightest bit of stiffness can destroy a golf swing out on the course. I think v shortly I am going to call an end to experimenting on my swing for the year. It is something to be doing over winter, now I just want to play. Its hard to do when your changing all the time. I must admit I have had a few 'eureeka's'. And it began with hitting the ball lol. I know what you mean about the feel of just cleaning the ball off the mat with the club and not even knowing you have hit it. I was doing that and it felt great. My pro said the next level was to stay connected and start using the bigger muscles to do the work. We started with sw and he got me turning through the shots. Used the old headcover under the arm, which I was suspect enough about. But after 2 weeks of trial and error wow. Now the club is swinging, the ball is flying with good contact, and its effortless. Total new feeling, and as you said, addictive!! lol

[Teevino]

Re: Lessons and improvement

. The spending money on lessons issue I have dealt with this way, my lesson costs €35, a good club costs €350 and if I can't use it right is worth about €0 to me lol. I only need a lesson about once a month so in real terms only cost €.50 a day. Makes no sense not to have a lesson!

Once a month I can handle.

Hitting 450 balls in one session is for sure an excuse for not playing well the following day. The slightest bit of stiffness can destroy a golf swing out on the course.

Hope you don't mind me butting in here. Stiffness I can work through by just playing, but right now I think I have a strained muscle on my left side and that is definitely making it harder to swing well. I'm trying to rest it but have a hard time staying away from the course and/or range more than a day.

I think v shortly I am going to call an end to experimenting on my swing for the year. It is something to be doing over winter, now I just want to play. Its hard to do when your changing all the time.

So true. Yesterday I decided to go out and just swing the club and mostly forget about all the stuff in my head that I've been picking up and I was able to hit my drives better (considering the pain in my side.)

Used the old headcover under the arm, which I was suspect enough about.

Does this make you keep your right arm tucked next to your body. I've heard of this but can never remember to try it.

But after 2 weeks of trial and error wow. Now the club is swinging, the ball is flying with good contact, and its effortless. Total new feeling, and as you said, addictive!! lol

Thats what I'm looking for, the effortless, long and straight. I am probably going to have to get rid of this pain in my side before I can get there however.

[jman100]

Re: Lessons and improvement

Hey Teevino,

What I have found, being my experience, is that after a lesson, where my pro makes what seems like minor adjustments to my swing, it normally takes me anywhere from 2 wks to 2 months (depending on how dramatic the changes are) to get back to striking the ball with some degree of consistency. Then I continue to practice until I feel comfortable enough with the changes. Then I go back for another lesson to see if I have implemented everything correctly. This whole process so far means I've had an average of about a lesson every 2 months. This is the reason I started this thread lol! To see if this is how others have found it. But if it helps anybody out I'm glad we are talking about it

I have to admit though, I play a bit of football, and one thing I always found was I hadn't a hope of swinging the club if I was stiff in my upper body not to mind a strain. I'd suggest taking time off from swinging the club. Use the time to read a few books about the swing. Doesn't have to be time away from the game! Only a suggestion, cause I am the same, can't stop swinging to see diff results! LOL

I replied here to a few posts. Main thing I found between the range and the course was relaxation. You can relax on the range, but if you are not 100% on the course it is v difficult to relax and just let your body work. You can have all the technique you want but if you are not relaxed you'll never swing properly.

What I have found with the headcover is it promotes the arms and body to swing in sync. My pro didn't use it during my lesson. He was just getting me to use a wedge with the proper turn through. He just suggested me using it if I was having difficulty duplicating the connected feeling with other clubs. What I am doing now as opposed to before is my swing is more fluid. I don't look like my arms are swinging at one pace and my body moving at another. It looks just more in sync. And what I am finding is I am acheiving a more turned finishing position. If you see a pro swing a short iron in their finish they are turned but their right arm is more across their chest, left elbow tucked into their sides with their right shoulder under their chin. Thats feeling I get when I use my 8 iron now. Don't know if its right or wrong, but this swinging (or more correctly turning) coupled with the suggestions here about the cupping of the right wrist (Gregs right hand drill & shootin's good advice on cupping) have me making a real nice connection with the ball, and I'm way more accurate.

[Teevino]

Re: Lessons and improvement

jman, I am going to try and stay away from swinging any clubs at all until Saturday. I am using heat therapy each day and trying to baby my left side in all movement. Hopefully it will be better if not gone by then.

Do you have any familiarity with the book "How to Break 80". I am just now dancing on the 100 mark, shooting 98 once, averaging 108 over 6 games. I'm pretty happy with that after only 4-5 months of playing the game. Shot 111 yesterday (good front 9, not so good back 9)with the pain in my side (it isn't a severe pain but I know it is affecting my swing.) Thought this book looked pretty interesting. Of course I haven't bought it yet.

[shootin4par]

Re: Lessons and improvement

teevino, where do you live?

[jman100]

Re: Lessons and improvement

Hey Teevino

I think playing injured is def not the way to go. You will only get frustrated with how you are playing etc. But as I said you don't have to go from the game. Practice your setup, use the time to practice your takeaway, the cupping of the right wrist, thats only moving the club 8 inches and shouldn't put pressure on your side, stop if it does, get your body used to ataining impact position. I have found that you have to resist the temptation to always be practicing full swings. People feel if they not swinging they're learning nothing but this isn't true. Its actually the total opposite imo. So, this is good time for you. Use it doing 'soft' things.

Not familiar with the book you mentioned. Golf digest have an article on it though. Breaking 100, 90, 80, 70. Check it out, might save you cost of book? http://www.golfdigest.com/instructio...kingintro.html
You are shooting ok though. Few questions;
Is your score being artificially inflated by an 8 or 9 on a few holes?
What do you feel is the main thing holding you back from doing better?
In a round are you always/sometimes/never giving yourself chances for a green in regulation (or very close to a green in regulation)?
If you are giving yourself chances, are you taking them?
How many 3 putts do you make?

Bit of course management might help to consistently get in the 90's. You need good swing fundamentals to move on then.

[Teevino]

Re: Lessons and improvement

teevino, where do you live?

Hey shootin, I live in Goldsboro, NC..

Hey Teevino
I think playing injured is def not the way to go. You will only get frustrated with how you are playing etc. But as I said you don't have to go from the game. Practice your setup, use the time to practice your takeaway, the cupping of the right wrist, thats only moving the club 8 inches and shouldn't put pressure on your side, stop if it does, get your body used to ataining impact position. I have found that you have to resist the temptation to always be practicing full swings. People feel if they not swinging they're learning nothing but this isn't true. Its actually the total opposite imo. So, this is good time for you. Use it doing 'soft' things

This is one of those weird strains that I only feel when I move a certain way or breath deeply. Like it is right around the rib cage. Much better today. But I like your suggestion about doing 'soft' things. I know I will be on the course come Saturday though.

Not familiar with the book you mentioned. Golf digest have an article on it though. Breaking 100, 90, 80, 70. Check it out, might save you cost of book? http://www.golfdigest.com/instructio...kingintro.html

I'll check it out..

You are shooting ok though. Few questions;
Is your score being artificially inflated by an 8 or 9 on a few holes?

Yes. But have been staying out of the 10 stroke category for quite some time now. Right now I generally have an 8 about once, at most twice per game. 9's are becoming much more rare. I am pretty consistently shooting 7 down with an occassional par (3 in one game, two 4's and a 3, once). Generally when I have a really bad hole it is because I have lost one in the woods or water and end up havin to drop.

What do you feel is the main thing holding you back from doing better?

Well of course my side right now, but beyond that I feel that playing time is what I most need to improve. Ah, but the biggest thing is accuracy, hitting em straight on approach and efficiency with the driver. I can't tell you how many times I would have hit the green in at least 3 if I had not pulled or pushed the ball. Also, driver is not great right now. I am a true "recovery golfer."

In a round are you always/sometimes/never giving yourself chances for a green in regulation (or very close to a green in regulation)?

I assume regulation would be on the green in two on a par 4. My driver is not giving me that opportunity. But when I do get it I pull the shot. So to answer your question I'd say, rarely. (unlike shootin4par, I'm shootin4bogey)

If you are giving yourself chances, are you taking them?

I'm tryin jman

How many 3 putts do you make?

Oh, I am 'very good' at making the third putt . Just kidding. I know what you mean. I'd say I'm putting 3 50% of the time or less. I may actually be doing a little better than that (I'm pretty good on my pace and distance but occassionally 'sally' a long putt leaving a longer than necessary second putt. And of course duff the infamous short putt too often. (shoulda, woulda, coulda )

Bit of course management might help to consistently get in the 90's. You need good swing fundamentals to move on then.

I agree. My management has gotten better but my accuracy on drives (fairway and tee) is really holding me back a lot right now I feel.