Hogan had it wrong?

[pnearn]

Re: Hogan had it wrong?

I learned aot from this site. (http://www.newgolfswing.com/newgolfswing05.php)

Shootin4Par will love this piece of advice

http://www.newgolfswing.com/newgolfswing05.php

The backswing 'magic move' they talk about and diagram is his cup right wrist first movment. Good stuff

[Mcdougle]

Re: Hogan had it wrong?

http://www.newgolfswing.com/newgolfswing07.php

[pnearn]

Re: Hogan had it wrong?

http://www.newgolfswing.com/newgolfswing07.php

Again some interesting and good advice. If you move the hips as far laterally as you can in a line left of the target your body will turn and then rotate and then pull down the passive arms and hands and your left wrist should be bowed/right wrist cupped at impact

As the guy says a lot of people are afraid to make this lateral hip movement in the right direction since they think it can only bring their arms and hands over the top and the ball would start left. When done correctly with passive hands the arms are actually pulled down and inside

Have a look at Luke Donald and using the tree line in the background see just how much his left hip moves in the downswing and also the direction it moves in .. not straight at the target, not right of the target, but left of the target. This then pulls his arms down

http://golfdigest.com/instruction/sw...ld/donald.html

[samburk]

Re: Hogan had it wrong?

Thanks for the great response guys

[ice9]

Re: Hogan had it wrong?

I am currently working on this move with my pro. He emphasized that this is the move that separates the men from the boys. His approach is, right before you finish your back swing or to put it another way, right before you get to the top of your backswing, turn your left hip behind you as fast a you can. This will pull the club back down into the slot. This move is also discussed in the book “Swing Like a Pro”, that is, to start your hip move before you finish your backswing. My pro doesn’t discuss a bump to the left and then a turn, he says just turn and the shift will take care of itself. I’m spraying it to the right alot and he says that it’s because I’m not completely my turn, I don’t have a good finish at this time. I’m working on that though. This new move also makes me very sore. It’s almost a violent move. I’m going to continue to work on it and video myself throughout the process. It’s funny that this topic came up because I wanted to start a thread on this discussing the fact that out of all the golf magazines that I receive and all of the Golf Channel programs that I record I have yet to see an instructor explain that the turn of the hips should start before the finish of the backswing or anything centered around the hip turn.

[pgmetcalf]

Re: Hogan had it wrong?

I am currently working on this move with my pro. He emphasized that this is the move that separates the men from the boys. His approach is, right before you finish your back swing or to put it another way, right before you get to the top of your backswing, turn your left hip behind you as fast a you can. This will pull the club back down into the slot. This move is also discussed in the book “Swing Like a Pro”, that is, to start your hip move before you finish your backswing. My pro doesn’t discuss a bump to the left and then a turn, he says just turn and the shift will take care of itself. I’m spraying it to the right alot and he says that it’s because I’m not completely my turn, I don’t have a good finish at this time. I’m working on that though. This new move also makes me very sore. It’s almost a violent move. I’m going to continue to work on it and video myself throughout the process. It’s funny that this topic came up because I wanted to start a thread on this discussing the fact that out of all the golf magazines that I receive and all of the Golf Channel programs that I record I have yet to see an instructor explain that the turn of the hips should start before the finish of the backswing or anything centered around the hip turn.

This doesn't sound quite right to me, though I can see the reason your tutor has told you that. Such a violent turn will probably lead to inconsistency and consistancy is the name of the game in golf. For example, look at Tiger Woods, when he winds up for the "big hit" he generally thrashes it everywhere except the fairway. OK, he can hit it a long way and some times it pays off and sometimes it doesn't, but his mid/short iron approaches is where he scores.

If you're swinging the fast and it's the only way you can feel the right side drop, try this. Swing to the top and stop. Have a friend grip the clubhead securely, then try and swing though to the target. That should help you try and get into the slot. Personally, on a weekly basis, I will spend 30 minutes or so just hitting practice shots while trying to maintain the angle in the right elbow (and the distance between the right wrist and shoulder) from the top of the backswing right through until the finish. There's noway on Earth I can maintain the angle but it helps me feel where the swing should be.

[RandomHero1090]

Re: Hogan had it wrong?

Try this... Just go to the top of your backswing and make your 1st move down by dropping the right shoulder straight down. Don't rotate or move it forward.

When you do this, your left hip SHOULD move laterally towards your target.

I always think about working my right shoulder UNDER my chin. My head my drop slightly back, but NOT FORWARD.

[jbrunk]

Re: Hogan had it wrong?

What i find interesting in this discussion is that for all of the books I have read including McLean, Ledbetter, one by Ernie Els and Butch Harmon, none have mentioned the term wrist 'Cup'. It is always cock, but when I look back at the color photos of wrist position, they are all cupped at impact. Why does this RHD and right wrist cup seem like such a protected secret?

[RandomHero1090]

Re: Hogan had it wrong?

This is where I show I don't know it all....

I thought people typed CUP because COCKED was blocked.

What the heck is the difference??? I might know it and just don't call it that.

[jbrunk]

Re: Hogan had it wrong?

Random,

Cup = bending the right hand back. I.E. stand with right hand out in front of you like you are going to shake someone's hand and then bend it straight back as if you could get your fingers to touch the top of your right arm.

Cock = start in the same position and bend the right wrist back toward you so that your right thumb is pointing to your sternum.


The cup is what creates the pure contact in the golfswing. In my swing, when I properly cup the right wrist, I am not able to cock it at the same time.

[ice9]

Re: Hogan had it wrong?

I agree about the wrist cup being eliminated from discussions by the golf channel/teaching gurus. It seems that they all regurgitate the same things over and over. Not that what they are saying is wrong. These “Magic” moves seems to be kept from us amateurs for some reason. I often hear and read that “power is generated from the ground up.” “ To hit it long and straight one must use the big muscles.” “Pros start the downswing with their hips” After my pro said that he wanted me to start working on starting the downswing with the hip turn I revisited “Swing Like a Pro” to confirm the “start the hip turn before you reach the top of your backswing concept” The problem now is that I’m concentrating on this move so much that I can’t get a full wrist “Cock” AND “Cup” which I understand is equally important in order to gain distance.

[pnearn]

Re: Hogan had it wrong?

I am currently working on this move with my pro. This new move also makes me very sore. It’s almost a violent move. I’m going to continue to work on it and video myself throughout the process.

I went through exactly the same swing changes about a year ago now and im still trying to get it all down. However some things that I have learned that may be of use?

1. The move should not be violent. Quite the opposite. It should be a gentle move of the hips in a line left of the target. This then pulls your arms. You have to make your brain realise that the hips only have to move a small way, it will be the the long lever of the arms and club that gets flung around in the wider circle (centrifugal force). Keep the wrists soft and they will release right at the end too. Try and feel like you want to swing at half speed. Make that hip movement as slow as you can, feel really relaxed. It s hard I know, once that little white ball is in front of you but this is what you have to learn to do. If you make that hip move violently you will lose balance, increase tension and spray the ball everywhere. Its still the hit from the top impulse only this time not with the hands/arms but with the hips. Slow it right down. In fact when you practice do it as slowly as you can and you will really feel the pull on the arms. When you are hitting it solid off this slow turn, speed it up until you start to lose control and you'll find your optimum speed. I know its a cliche but watch how smoothly Ernie, Vijay, Annika etc make this move

2. Realise too that now you have this more gentle turn, that power comes from getting wound up right in the backswing. Maintain spine angle and get coiled right into the right leg. Feel the stretch at the top (it should be uncomfortable). From there you have the spring that this gentle unwind will unleash


I also think that you need to move the hips laterally rather than just turn them but if you bump them at the right angle (i.e. to a point at say 8am on a clock face) then they have to turn pretty quickly as the left leg straightens

HTH

[ice9]

Re: Hogan had it wrong?

To explain “almost violent.” Picture someone sneaking up on you from behind , on your left side. You turn around as quick as you can to see who it is. This is how my instructor describes how I should be turning my hips. He kept saying you have to turn quicker in order to generate speed. I watched a lot of video last night from different shows that I had Tivoed off of the Golf Channel. I noticed that most if not all of the instructors and players started the TRANSITION ( a term from SLAP ) with a move of the left hip towards the target, be it a bump of a turn, before the club stopped traveling to the top. So, I need to clarify how this hip turn fits into the swing. I’m going to try and video myself from multiple angles this weekend and replay them to better understand what I’m doing compared to what others are doing. My pro did mention one thing that I thought was important when discussing this move and that is “what you think you are doing in the golf swing is not always what you are actually doing. It may feel like you are sliding but you are actually turning”