Square shoulders at address

[irhyper2]

I have a problem with "open" shoulders at address, which has to promote an outside in swing path. The problem is magnified as the club gets longer. How do I correct this? With a driver,for instance. with the ball off the left heal, I find it impossible to "'square" my shoulders. Any advice is appreciated.

[gark]

Re: Square shoulders at address

Let me answer you with an excerpt from one of my previous posts.

The problem is that with the ball positioned off the left foot while keeping my hands in the middle, once I put the clubhead right next to the ball, a bunch of undesirable side effects happen: 1) an open shoulder line 2) more spine tilt than what I want and 3) an unbalanced weight distribution.

Here’s how I fixed it:

• Tee the ball high
• I kept the ball positioned off the inside edge of my left foot. My left foot btw points forward because doing so keeps my forward turn from becoming a lateral lunge.
• I make sure that my spine has the least possible amount of tilt. It also helps that I keep my upper right arm on top of my chest muscle. I also keep my right arm straight at setup.
• I keep my hands in the middle
• I position the clubhead in front of my hands - not right next to the ball but about 4-5 inches behind it.
• I directly face the clubhead. I look at the ball by just moving my eyes.
• I also minimize my weight transfer on the backswing but allow a natural weight transfer forward on the downswing

You got to believe me when I tell you that this has been the biggest breakthrough I’ve had in my entire golf game. This simple change transformed me from a hardhitting, inconsistent, out-of-balanced, long at times driver of the ball to a smooth swinging, consistently accurate and long driver (compared to before) of the ball.

The usual comment I get from my friends when I ask them to try this setup is that they feel that they won’t be able to hit the ball. It doesn’t even take them a few attempts. Most of them start hitting straighter and longer drives from the first ball that they tee up.

[eurocop]

Re: Square shoulders at address

A common problem, for which i suffered myself.Slice, fade, When you set up do so by first placing left hand on club at adress and then place club behind ball with left hand only, then when leaning into posture place right hand on club. if you have your right shoulder too high this will promote and open left shoulder, so drop right shoulder slightly. Also for long clubs, especially driver, when set up hover club face about 3-4 inches back from ball not right up on it, enough to keep that left shoulder square.

Remember that if shoulders point slightly right of target line or stance is slightly closed, this is ok and will promote more of a in to out swing and will allow the club to drop in the slot easier.

let us know how you launch em..

[irhyper2]

Re: Square shoulders at address

A common problem, for which i suffered myself.Slice, fade, When you set up do so by first placing left hand on club at adress and then place club behind ball with left hand only, then when leaning into posture place right hand on club. if you have your right shoulder too high this will promote and open left shoulder, so drop right shoulder slightly. Also for long clubs, especially driver, when set up hover club face about 3-4 inches back from ball not right up on it, enough to keep that left shoulder square.

Remember that if shoulders point slightly right of target line or stance is slightly closed, this is ok and will promote more of a in to out swing and will allow the club to drop in the slot easier.

let us know how you launch em..

Thanks to both of you. Makes since what you say. When you bring the right hand onto the cluib at address, it has to open your shoulders. I have just not noticed anyone holding the club that far back from the ball. It also seems foreign that the driver is the only club that, at address, you place the hands behind the ball. Appears one would have a bad slice.

[LANCEALOTS]

Re: Square shoulders at address

Let me answer you with an excerpt from one of my previous posts.

The problem is that with the ball positioned off the left foot while keeping my hands in the middle, once I put the clubhead right next to the ball, a bunch of undesirable side effects happen: 1) an open shoulder line 2) more spine tilt than what I want and 3) an unbalanced weight distribution.

Here’s how I fixed it:

• Tee the ball high
• I kept the ball positioned off the inside edge of my left foot. My left foot btw points forward because doing so keeps my forward lateral from turning into a lateral lunge.
• I make sure that my spine has the least possible amount of tilt. It also helps that I keep my upper right arm on top of my chest muscle. I also keep my right arm straight at setup.
• I keep my hands in the middle
• I position the clubhead in front of my hands - not right next to the ball but about 4-5 inches behind it.
• I directly face the clubhead. I look at the ball by just moving my eyes.
• I also minimize my weight transfer on the backswing but allow a natural weight transfer forward on the downswing

You got to believe me when I tell you that this has been the biggest breakthrough I’ve had in my entire golf game. This simple change transformed me from a hardhitting, inconsistent, out-of-balanced, long at times driver of the ball to a smooth swinging, consistently accurate and long driver (compared to before) of the ball.

The usual comment I get from my friends when I ask them to try this setup is that they feel that they won’t be able to hit the ball. It doesn’t even take them a few attempts. Most of them start hitting straighter and longer drives from the first ball that they tee up.

Would you recommend this for irons as well, say 6 to pw???????????

[gark]

Re: Square shoulders at address

I've been setting up this way for all my shots. What I mean is that I try to have the least amount of spine tilt at setup. Whatever spine tilt I have is only because my right hand is placed lower on the grip than my left hand.

I play most of my shots near the middle of my stance: long clubs - right edge of the ball at the middle, other clubs - ball at the middle. So for all clubs I set the clubhead in the middle which means right next to the ball for non-driver clubs. It's only with the driver that the clubhead is 4-5 inches behind the ball.

[LANCEALOTS]

Re: Square shoulders at address

I've been setting up this way for all my shots. What I mean is that I try to have the least amount of spine tilt at setup. Whatever spine tilt I have is only because my right hand is placed lower on the grip than my left hand.

I play most of my shots near the middle of my stance: long clubs - right edge of the ball at the middle, other clubs - ball at the middle. So for all clubs I set the clubhead in the middle which means right next to the ball for non-driver clubs. It's only with the driver that the clubhead is 4-5 inches behind the ball.

One more thing,when you mention tilt, you do mean by bending over towards the ball, correct ( @ set up )

[gark]

Re: Square shoulders at address

One more thing,when you mention tilt, you do mean by bending over towards the ball, correct ( @ set up )

No, by spine tilt I mean left-right => right shoulder lower than the left (and not forward-backward towards the ball).

[Robert O' Keeffe]

Re: Square shoulders at address

hi irhyper,

I have the same problem and tend to hit the ball to the left. What I do to try and correct is: Grip club with left hand and placein front of the ball about 4". keeping the club in the middle, grip with the right hand.At this point I check my feet to see if I have a wide enough stance and that they are paralell. Then I look at my shoulders and see that they are square with my feet. if i do this routine most strikes are straight. Hope this helps.
Robert

[eurocop]

Re: Square shoulders at address

Thanks to both of you. Makes since what you say. When you bring the right hand onto the cluib at address, it has to open your shoulders. I have just not noticed anyone holding the club that far back from the ball. It also seems foreign that the driver is the only club that, at address, you place the hands behind the ball. Appears one would have a bad slice.

remember you are catching the ball on the up with the driver. Also as you get use to having the shoulders more square and right tilt for spine angle you will be able to have your club closer to the ball without having shoulders open relative to target line. This is just a temp fix.

[Teevino]

Re: Square shoulders at address

I've been setting up this way for all my shots. What I mean is that I try to have the least amount of spine tilt at setup. Whatever spine tilt I have is only because my right hand is placed lower on the grip than my left hand.

I play most of my shots near the middle of my stance: long clubs - right edge of the ball at the middle, other clubs - ball at the middle. So for all clubs I set the clubhead in the middle which means right next to the ball for non-driver clubs. It's only with the driver that the clubhead is 4-5 inches behind the ball.

gark, what you describe in your set up is pretty much spot on what I do as well. However, I just came in from the backyard hitting those little yellow balls (ya'll know the ones), anyhow what I'm noticing with my driver is my clubhead is skimming the grass/ground (sometimes it actually rubs against the ground) before getting to the ball. This happens on the course as well.

I felt like my practice session went well overall (very good contact) but the margin of error for a straight drive seems awfully small to me. I'm hitting about 30% perfectly straight(for those of you who may be in Rio Linda [sic] that is 3 balls out of 10. Just kidding, just kidding ) I feel like I am unable to zero in fully on my mechanics because of the slight contact my clubhead is having with the grass/ground thereby rendering a less than accurate feedback on the correctness of the rest of my swing.

Of course this swing is spot on on the fairway but I can't seem to adjust to keep the clubhead up with my driver. If it is because my right shoulder is dropping too much I don't know, but trying to be conscious of that ain't getting it done.

Any ideas, anybody. Anybody else ever had this problem. I assume this is a problem.

[irhyper2]

Re: Square shoulders at address

Also as you get use to having the shoulders more square and right tilt for spine angle you will be able to have your club closer to the ball without having shoulders open relative to target line. This is just a temp fix.[/quote]

Now we are getting somewhere. WHY can you get the club closer with correct spine tilt and lowering the right shoulder? I have noticed some players (some pretty good ones) at address have their LEFT wrist cupped, which serves to move the club closer to the ball, without moving the left shoulder open. Is this a correct solution?

[shootin4par]

Re: Square shoulders at address

here is your issue, you do not have any rear elbow bend at address. learn how to add some elbow bend, this will square up your shoulders. I went through this too, keep the rear elbow below the front elbow, things like spine tilt, hand position, forward press, etc are NORMAlly not the issue,

[jambalaya]

Re: Square shoulders at address

Here’s how I fixed it:

• Tee the ball high
• I kept the ball positioned off the inside edge of my left foot. My left foot btw points forward because doing so keeps my forward lateral from turning into a lateral lunge.
• I make sure that my spine has the least possible amount of tilt. It also helps that I keep my upper right arm on top of my chest muscle. I also keep my right arm straight at setup.
• I keep my hands in the middle
• I position the clubhead in front of my hands - not right next to the ball but about 4-5 inches behind it.
• I directly face the clubhead. I look at the ball by just moving my eyes.
• I also minimize my weight transfer on the backswing but allow a natural weight transfer forward on the downswing

Timely thread. The suggestion about leaving the clubhead 4 to 5 inches behind the ball solves some problems for me I think. In addressing the ball with that slightly cupped position with the right hand, one really has to move the shoulder to get the club next to the ball. It is just weird that I have not heard anyone mention this before and I can't remember seeing a pro line it up that way.

[gark]

Re: Square shoulders at address

It is just weird that I have not heard anyone mention this before and I can't remember seeing a pro line it up that way.

I should get a patent on this technique...

After years of following the canned advice of 'experts' and not getting anywhere, I decided to look for the answers through my own experimentations. I opened my mind to all possibilites and allowed myself to 'think outside the box'. I made a lot of discoveries along the way.

The 'gark driver setup' is one of those discoveries. I've taught this to people who couldn't successfully swing their drivers and have gotten instant results.

I'm sure one of these days, one of those millionaire swing gurus will write an article on this 'new setup' and claim it as his own invention...