shoulder turn during backswing

[cobb44585]

i need some clarification on this matter. I have seen 2 different ways to rotate the shoulders in the backswing. the first way i have seen is to tilt your shoulders vertically so that the left shoulder points down, and the right shoulder points up. The second is to turn your shoulders horizontialy/level...keeping your shoulders parallel/level to the ground and turning to bring your left shoulder even with or behind the ball. kind of like the exercies you would do to stretch your back. Can some one explain if either of these is right or wrong? hope you understand.

[GregJWillis]

Re: shoulder turn during backswing

You just described the main difference between a 1-plane / 2-plane swing...vertical-ish shoulder rotation is the 1-planer.

Both are perfectly acceptable.

[cobb44585]

Re: shoulder turn during backswing

looks like to me most of the pros do a 1-planer....is one better than the other? are there any disadvantages between them?

[GregJWillis]

Re: shoulder turn during backswing

The 1-planer needs more of athletic move through the ball becase you are using your lower body to square the face...allowing the rest of the swing to be whipped around and flung at the ball.

The 2-planer is easier on the body, where you get to use your arms more...you roll them through impact and that is your main source of power. Timing is essential here. But it is all a learning process.

Which is a "better" way? If you are a normal build and have normal flexability, you can find it better in the long run at the 1-plane. Arm strong individuals with slightly less flexability will be more comfortable in the 2-plane.

[cobb44585]

Re: shoulder turn during backswing

ok...in the one plane...how do your hands move through the back swing.....at take away do you turn your left hand 90 degress to the right(back of hand facing front and palm facing your body) so when youre club is weist high/parallel to the ground the toe is pointing upward and shaft is pointing directly to your right? or do you keep your hands as they were at address?

[GregJWillis]

Re: shoulder turn during backswing

Keep your hands where they are at address. Rotate the shoulders back (keeping them around your spine angle, so you feel like the left shoulder is now lower then the right), and allow the arms to be rotated back while letting them "pronate" in a way that gets the tow "up". Lift the arms INTO the chest and set the hands.

This is the top of a 1 planer. You will feel tension all down the lower back because you notice I didn't mention ANYTHING with the lower body...that stays as still as you can take it.

[Simon Woo]

Re: shoulder turn during backswing

So two-planers rotate the shoulders parallel to the ground and not perpendicular to the spine angle???

[GregJWillis]

Re: shoulder turn during backswing

Yes, on a "flater" plane then the spine angle...this is what dictates the second plane...the arms being 1, and the shoulders being 2. When they swing on the same plane, you are using 1p, when they are different, you are 2p.

[Simon Woo]

Re: shoulder turn during backswing

Hmm.. I have been trying to dip my left shoulder on my backswing to keep my spine angle constant... Now I'm really worried how much 1PS and 2PS I've been mixing in my swing :O

[cobb44585]

Re: shoulder turn during backswing

greg j....explain the one plane downswing. you said you use your body to square the club face...i understand that but how do you rotate your shoulders on the downswing? just the opposite of the backswing?....keeping them perpindicular to the spine...the right pointing down to the ball and left pointing up(opposite of backswing) at or after impact? its easy for me to imagine to get the club face square by your body you would almost have to turn your shoulders more level/parallel to the ground than vertical/perpindicular to the spine.....can you specify this please? also do you have to roll your right arm any through impact with a one plane down swing?

[GregJWillis]

Re: shoulder turn during backswing

Rotate the shoulders the same as they went back...and past where they were at setup into impact. The hips fully rotate through as well.

The arms will re-pronate by themselves. Any attempt to force this will result in a new timing issue that increases errors.

[Simon Woo]

Re: shoulder turn during backswing

Correct to say that in both swings, the shoulders and hips must lead (ie. open) the hands at impact, right?

[GregJWillis]

Re: shoulder turn during backswing

No, the 2p swing is allowing the arms to pronate the club closed (note here I did not say "Hands", it is the arms). The shoulders and hips may return to square... and this squareness is an optional solution to those that have less flexability. The more flexability you have, to more you may rotate through and thus the farther the arms get to hang back creating more "body whip" and tourque between the upper and lower body that is used on the arms/club. So, 2-plane all you want and choose an impact position that you can handle.

[cobb44585]

Re: shoulder turn during backswing

thanks for all the help greg.....i took a pic of the top of my backswing and found out i am laying the club out..meaning the club is pointing left of the target or target line instead of pointing down the target line. i noticed in the pic that the butt end of the club and my hands were not pointing to my right/behind me..they were pretty much pointing in the direction of the swing plane(open club/hands)...if that makes since......so i made the correction in got things looking right but it seems when i do it the right way my right hand wants to seperate from the club grip.....if i cup my right hand its ok..is cupping the right hand ok? i know youre not supposed to cup the left...i will try to post the pic this evening.

[cobb44585]

Re: shoulder turn during backswing

greg..see how my golf club is laid off to my backside....if im not mistaking it should be pointing down the target line parallel to the ground....i had to conciously set my hands to the correct position...so that the club is pointing down the target line and near parallel to the ground....see attachment. please feel free to critique anything.....