Leslie King Method (Swing Factory)

[shootin4par]

Re: Leslie King Method (Swing Factory)

why would you let him bother you so much? and how I got thrwon in there I dont know, but at least you know who I am

[BrianW]

Re: Leslie King Method (Swing Factory)

The "Swing Factory" was one of the most helpful books I have read on the golf swing, it is beautifully illustrated and is a great aid to someone who wishes to build a sound repeatable golf swing. Kings teaching methods have inspired so many at the top and stand on their own merits.

It does say that a free swing of the hands and arms are crucial to a good golf swing, it also explains that the body needs to position them through the swing such that they are able to carry out their function. Shoulder turn, hip rotation, transfer of weight etc are all there and not so different from other leading methodology. King does have views on how the POWER in the shot is applied but the difference between him and many others is very small.

Robin, I am pleased to hear that it is helping you and I am sure the bad game today was either a growing pain with your new method or just a bad head day for golf. "Nil desperandum illegitimi carborundum".

[shootin4par]

Re: Leslie King Method (Swing Factory)

thanks for the insight brian, You cleared up what would have been my main concern with the book. I may have to pick that one up some day and check it out. sounds "unorthodox" but many of our answers lie away from the mainstream. If I guesed you are probably a feel golfer?

[bdbl]

Re: Leslie King Method (Swing Factory)

S4P - Apologies, you got dragged in because I thought you were arguing with him anyhow, not fair cos although (like most of us) you sometimes retreat to a dogmatic position, you're a well intentioned poster. Why did he wind me up? The 11 over didn't help but mostly it was the confrontational tone - ffs my original post was a just random observation thrown onto the sea of discussion .....

Brian - cheers for the kind thoughts; todays bad round was just that - putted like a blind man (38 - my best is 27), short game was worse (conditions were dreadful though); in the end one of my partners who's off not much was well over his best too - so hey maybe I overreacted!!!

Still in the 90's though so not all lost.

I've had a glass of wine now, so Jeff, apolopgies too.

Robin

[BrianW]

Re: Leslie King Method (Swing Factory)

thanks for the insight brian, You cleared up what would have been my main concern with the book. I may have to pick that one up some day and check it out. sounds "unorthodox" but many of our answers lie away from the mainstream. If I guesed you are probably a feel golfer?

Shootin,

It is worth reading but not so unorthodox really. I know you are not a proponent of method teaching (8 positions) and it is much in this school, like Hogan he based his thoughts on what he saw in the best players of his day.

I try to be a feel golfer around the greens but focus very much on course management and playing within myself on the tee and fairway.

[Gudgeon]

Re: Leslie King Method (Swing Factory)

If anyone does own the book "The Swing Factory", take 5 mins to look at the pictures and diagrams. They are exactly the same as in Jeffs review.
I guess no matter what you call it, (arms and hands or body swing) the take away positions and the impact position and also the follow through are exactly the same!!
The body movement or side shift, or lateral shift or whatever you want to call it! happens naturally when you swing correctly, in order to make room for your hands and arms to swing down and through the ball freely.
I think to put to much emphasis on a deliberate shift to the left, and hip rotation, could end up spoiling a perfectly good swing. Like i said it happens naturally if you have your swing on plane on the backswing and also on the downswing.

[Jeff Mann]

Re: Leslie King Method (Swing Factory)

Robin - I don't know why you reacted so passionately.

I merely challenged the belief that Leslie King's takeaway approach is different to traditional takeaway teaching. Secondly, I thought that it would be informative for forum members to read my personal analysis of the difference between Leslie King's arm takeaway and my personal understanding of a traditional one piece takeaway. In my biased opinion, they are actually the same, and I think that it is a matter of semantics (I simply have a different understanding of the definition of what represents a one piece takeaway, compared to Leslie King).

In challenging your position, I am not deliberately trying to be confrontational. I am merely trying to put forward a contrary opinion, and I believe that considering all contrary opinions makes forum discussions potentially fruitful from a learning perspective.

Jeff.

[Gudgeon]

Re: Leslie King Method (Swing Factory)

I've recently started (re-)working my swing based on reading some of Leslie King's theories on line.

http://www.golftoday.co.uk/proshop/tuition/index.html

I've also glanced at the Swing Factory book but I'm not sure what else it includes for the money.

In practice I'm hitting the ball more consistently with better distance and trajectory so, although the acid test will be whether the new swing stands up on course, so far so good.

However I was wondering what some of you guys think of the method as much of it seems counter to modern teaching - especially the "one piece takeaway" - I've cut & pasted some text to show what I mean.

THE GOLF ACTION IS BASED UPON A FREE SWING OF THE HANDS AND ARMS INDEPENDENT OF THE BODY.

The body in fact has nothing to do with propelling (cause the movement of) the hands and arms at any time.

A correct swing is based upon a free swing of the hands and arms. A bad swing is based upon body propulsion - an action in which the hands and arms are set in motion by body movement.

I warn again. If the take away is started by a turn and dip of the shoulders you will not achieve the correct take away line ... and consequently, the alignment of your swing plane will be wrong.

To understand the nature of the take away think of the simple chip shot. In it the backswing is performed entirely with the hands and arms. No body or shoulder movement is involved. If the shoulders turned, the club would be taken off line. It is the same with other shots, and this is the key to the start of the full shot. Start the drive as you would start the chip... with the left hand and arm alone. Then add the body movement (the shoulder turn) at the proper time simply to allow the swing to progress further, clear to the top.

We have already seen that the takeaway is NOT "one-piece". The hands and arms start the movement. Then the shoulders begin to turn to allow the swing to continue to the top. This implies a genuine swing of the left hand and arm.

In the "one-piece" takeaway the club, hands and arms are being set in motion by turning the shoulders. This is what I call the "body propelling the hands and the arms". This is not a swing at all.

Oops sorry a rather long post - perhaps I should have posted it as an article, anyway look forward to reading the debate.

bdbl
I would suggest just reading the book and leaving the on line stuff. The book is so much more simple, easy to read, and most important easy to understand. You are right in thinking there is no more content than the on line article, but it is a more modern, up to date theory. It has been simplified, and basically you are just working on half a dozen positions that work in sequence. Basically if you get the first position right it should lead you straight into the next position, and so on. Get the first position wrong and obviously things deteriate pretty quickly.
You can get a copy of the book on Amazon for as little as £10.
Hope this helps.

Gudgeon

[shootin4par]

Re: Leslie King Method (Swing Factory)

bdbl, no worries man, and remember, the only bad day we have is the one where we dont learn anything
brian I would ask more about your technique but maybe I should start another thread. matter of fact I will

[LowPost42]

Re: Leslie King Method (Swing Factory)

Wow - a day late and a dollar short here.

I skimmed through the ruckus (guys, please take it to PM. We have a huuuuge allotment for PMs in this forum, please use them).

I read his thoughts on the grip - and applied them to my own golf game (I'm completely rebuilding my swing). Just taking half swings with this new grip feels strange, but good. It certainly allows the club to release with no force on my part - not like my 4 knuckle strong grip that I've been using.

At any rate - like any instruction; the key is to pick one and stick with it (and if it isn't working out for you, pick a different one!)

[bdbl]

Re: Apology

Hi All

I would just like to apologise, primarily to Jeff but also to the rest of you for my outburst on Sunday.

At the time I read Jeff's post totally the wrong way, its irrelevant now how and why, it hit a raw nerve and the rest, as they say, is history.

Hope you accept the apology - and that the post was out of character.

A contrite Robin.

[slater170]

Re: Apology

Hi All

I would just like to apologise, primarily to Jeff but also to the rest of you for my outburst on Sunday.

At the time I read Jeff's post totally the wrong way, its irrelevant now how and why, it hit a raw nerve and the rest, as they say, is history.

Hope you accept the apology - and that the post was out of character.

A contrite Robin.

hi robin,
thanks for the earlier credit
i was stuck in the 90's for a long time but by steadfastly sticking to my practise routines i am now scoring in the 80's
rightly or wrongly i take my instruction advice from bradley,leadbetter and pelz because they seem to blend well together.
i think some of these over analytical threads do more harm than good and things can be taken out of context.
stick with what works best for you

[JohnnyNight]

Re: Leslie King Method (Swing Factory)

from what I see this is a version of - Ernest Jones - and - Manuel de la Torre"

Ernest Jones taught from 1920's to 60's
http://www.ernestjones.net/

Manuel de la Torre still teaching at 80
http://www.manueldelatorregolf.com

Manuel de la Torre's father, Angel, and Ernest Jones were friends and advocated this swing theory for a number of years.