Help how do I stop casting ?

[BrianW]

Re: Help how do I stop casting ?

first thing I would look too, when you are setting your wrists the first thing that needs to happen is you cup the rear wrist before you cock the wrists. This sets you in a biomechanical position that makes it physically harder to cast. Go look at pics of ernie els and you will see his first move back is a cup,

Sorry, I just don't get this. How do you cup the rear wrist without cupping the leading one? this suggests that either your hands are coming off the grip or the grip is bent. If one wrist is cupped concave the other must be cupped convex. Please explain?

I also find the thread relating to flipping the wrists vague. Flicking the wrists is normally a mistake in trying to get the ball airborne by flipping the club face under the ball as to hitting down on it with flat wrists. Or is it about the "Puck" type release as used in Ice Hockey to release the the lag in the wrists by bending both wrists through contact (Jeez, I am starting to sound confusing now)

Regards
Brian

[shootin4par]

Re: Help how do I stop casting ?

Sorry, I just don't get this. How do you cup the rear wrist without cupping the leading one?

cupping the reat wrist should flatten the leading one and if it does not you might want to go see a doctor to get them things checked out

[BrianW]

Re: Help how do I stop casting ?

cupping the reat wrist should flatten the leading one and if it does not you might want to go see a doctor to get them things c
checked out

When I asked the question I was seriously trying to understand the concept, your reply is sarcastic but I can rise above that. Please let's keep it adult?

I will try again. When I grip a golf club both my wrists lie naturally flat on the grip. If I cup one of them the other will respond by moving in the opposite direction, for example: I cup the right wrist convex the left will cup concave (For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction) unless I lift one hand from the club.

I can understand at the top of the backswing my left wrist is flat and my right bent but not cupped, is this what you mean?

Sensible replies preferred please!
Brian

[billneurauter]

Re: Help how do I stop casting ?

Brian,

You must not be gripping the club correctly then. If you grip the club so that both of the v's formed by your thumb and index finger point toward your right should it is impossible to have both of your wrists flat at the same time. The idea is that if you have a flat left wrist at the top of the swing that will correspond to a flat left wrist at impact. By flat I mean that when viewed head on it is in-line with the forearm, not cupped.

[BrianW]

Re: Help how do I stop casting ?

Brian,

You must not be gripping the club correctly then. If you grip the club so that both of the V's formed by your thumb and index finger point toward your right should it is impossible to have both of your wrists flat at the same time. The idea is that if you have a flat left wrist at the top of the swing that will correspond to a flat left wrist at impact. By flat I mean that when viewed head on it is in-line with the forearm, not cupped.

Thank you.

I understand clearly the concept of a flat wrist at impact and the top of the backswing.

Sorry for seeming slow on this but getting back to wrists at address: I place my left hand on the club so that my left forearm is in line with the club shaft, I align my "V" by rotating my hand on the grip so that it points to my right shoulder (No or very minimal cupping involved). I now place my right hand on the grip over my left hand with the "V" parallel to the left "V", my right shoulder is lower than my left because my right hand is lower down the shaft than my left, there is no or minimal cupping of my right wrist. That is unless I have bent elbows at address.

Regards
Brian

[Teevino]

Re: Help how do I stop casting ?

I can understand at the top of the backswing my left wrist is flat and my right bent but not cupped, is this what you mean?

Sensible replies preferred please!
Brian

Hey Brian, I believe "cupped" is specifically a golfing expression as used here meaning that the wrist is "bent back" as you say. Why do you suggest above that the "right is bent but not cupped"? For the left wrist to be straight and the right wrist to be "bent back" means the right wrist is "cupped" is it not? If you then "cock" it, it is both "cocked" and "cupped".

Where is the disconnect in language/thinking here? Just trying to understand what you are thinking/saying.

[shootin4par]

Re: Help how do I stop casting ?

When I asked the question I was seriously trying to understand the concept, your reply is sarcastic but I can rise above that. Please let's keep it adult?

brian, the joke was not meant as an attack, sorry that I came accross that way, I meant it as lighthearted, not demeaning

If I cup one of them the other will respond by moving in the opposite direction,
we agreee.

I can understand at the top of the backswing my left wrist is flat and my right bent but not cupped, is this what you mean?
yes, it seems it was just a manner of semantics

[BrianW]

Re: Help how do I stop casting ?

Hey Brian, I believe "cupped" is specifically a golfing expression as used here meaning that the wrist is "bent back" as you say. Why do you suggest above that the "right is bent but not cupped"? For the left wrist to be straight and the right wrist to be "bent back" means the right wrist is "cupped" is it not? If you then "cock" it, it is both "cocked" and "cupped".

Where is the disconnect in language/thinking here? Just trying to understand what you are thinking/saying.

You are absolutely correct Treevino, I should say at the top of the backswing my left wrist is flat and my right cupped (bent really is the same thing), this is due to the wrist cock where the left wrist is flat but rotated. I think what is confusing this issue is that the wrist can bend forward and back and also side to side.

Thanks
Brian

[BrianW]

Re: Help how do I stop casting ?

When I asked the question I was seriously trying to understand the concept, your reply is sarcastic but I can rise above that. Please let's keep it adult?

brian, the joke was not meant as an attack, sorry that I came accross that way, I meant it as lighthearted, not demeaning

If I cup one of them the other will respond by moving in the opposite direction,
we agreee.

I can understand at the top of the backswing my left wrist is flat and my right bent but not cupped, is this what you mean?
yes, it seems it was just a manner of semantics

Sorry for the over reaction then

Brian

[Teevino]

Re: Help how do I stop casting ?

You are absolutely correct Treevino, I should say at the top of the backswing my left wrist is flat and my right cupped (bent really is the same thing), this is due to the wrist cock where the left wrist is flat but rotated. I think what is confusing this issue is that the wrist can bend forward and back and also side to side.

Thanks
Brian

Ah, very good. Now we are getting someplace.

Cupping (bending back) the right wrist as the first move in your swing is not something that many/any people I have seen do. I believe when the pro's do it, it is so smooth as to be unnoticeable. When I do it, it is more pronounced, more like, what I believe, they call a forward press.

I picked this up from shootin some months back (I am still very new to the game) and it has served me well. I believe it is just a matter of choice, but when it comes to chipping and pitching it is almost essential, at least for me.

When I start my club back in one motion and rotate my wrists this cupping will happen automatically (or should) but by making it the first move seems to help me keep that wrist position throughout the swing or until it breaks down/releases naturally at impact or there abouts .

[kbp]

Re: Help how do I stop casting ?

You are absolutely correct Treevino, I should say at the top of the backswing my left wrist is flat and my right cupped (bent really is the same thing), this is due to the wrist cock where the left wrist is flat but rotated. I think what is confusing this issue is that the wrist can bend forward and back and also side to side.
Thanks
Brian

Cupping and cocking are two different actions and one does not necessarily cause the other. This can best be seen at address. Cupping the right hand at address will move the club head basically to the right. Cocking the wrist at address will basically raise the club head off the ground. These are two different motions. See Greg’s RHD for more excellent info on the topic.
Shootin4par is an advocate of cupping the right wrist BEFORE cocking the wrists on the backswing

[Teevino]

Re: Help how do I stop casting ?

Cupping and cocking are two different actions and one does not necessarily cause the other. This can best be seen at address. Cupping the right hand at address will move the club head basically to the right. Cocking the wrist at address will basically raise the club head off the ground. These are two different motions. See Greg’s RHD for more excellent info on the topic.
Shootin4par is an advocate of cupping the right wrist BEFORE cocking the wrists on the backswing

Precisely..

[golfseeker]

Re: Help how do I stop casting ?

I recently picked up a book, no longer in print, by Carl Lohren titled "One move to better golf" (by Golf Digest). In it the author states that if you start your back swing with your left shoulder and then start your downswing also with your left shoulder (for right handed players). The left shoulder must be in control. Let your right shoulder drop into the slot (your right elbow towards your right hip)You will then be on the correct plane. You will not come over the top. Coming over-the-top or casting begins with starting with your right shoulder and hands.

[Timothy Slaught]

Re: Help how do I stop casting ?

Hello All:

Some threads do take on a life of their own...

In golf, as in life, sometimes the answer to problems lies in a positive approach. Instead of focusing on how to stop casting it may make sense to talk about creating good lag in the downswing. Creating lag, of course, would be the opposite to casting. I always review Sergio Garcia's and Ben Hogan's swings to remind me of how this is done. Lag is a very important element of the swing and Garcia and Hogan are two of the best ball strikers to have played the game, period. Both had relatively small builds but are (were) able to hit the ball very solidly and with great distance when needed. Bear in mind that the lag these players created was almost other worldy but the principles used to create the lag apply to all good players.

Lag is created primarily with a good transitional move. Like it or not the proper golf swing combines the entire body working in harmony. It's not just arms or just legs or just wrists....it is the whole package. If you try to create lag simply by trying to prevent your wrists from uncocking too early on the downswing, this will probably create a forced and unnatural swing. Of the recommendations on the post, the pump drill being combined with a lower body initiated transitional move is good practice. There was a recent post with short video clip of what I believe was called the "Mickey Wright drill". This is a good example of a drill that may help with creating lag and utilizes the pump and transitional move together.

An important note in all this is the fact that not everyone will feel the swing the same way. Some players will need to feel that that they get a head start in the downswing with the hands (although the actual approach may be of the hands starting down in synch with the lower body). Others will need to feel the emphasis on the lower body initiating the move. The general rule is that the better players need to work on the syncronizing of the lower and upper bodies because their lower bodies are so active that their arms do not catch up and they get stuck. Higher handicaps have the opposite problem and do not use the lower body effectively and hit from the top (cast, over the top etc..). These golfers will need to focus on the lower body getting active in the entire swing and especially in the transitional move. The swing cannot ever be effective if it is strickly upper body dominated. You cannot creative dynamic lag with this type of swing but you sure can cast with it.

[golfseeker]

Re: Help how do I stop casting ?

One thing that has not been mentioned (that I am aware of) is that even if you know what the correct golf swing should look like it is difficult to see what your swing looks like without a video. Once you have that done then you have something to work on (or many things to work on). Also once you have an idea of what to work on you should have a golf teacher help you out. Then you have to work on the change (s) for several weeks or several months. I heard one pro say he has been working on a swing change for 10 years. So the point I am trying to make is that you have to work on a swing change everyday without fail for a minimum of 4 weeks until you can perform that swing move everytime. Your mind has to accept it and your muscle memory has to accept it.