Over the top - Is there one thing you can do to make it impossible?

[edshaw]

Re: Over the top - Is there one thing you can do to make it impossible?

Jambalaya: I think the article you link to provides very good instruction. The idea is to kind of put a bow in the body to make accomodate the power, not letting the head move forward. Joe Morgan was broadcasting a game this summer and he got into some phot compsarisons of Bonds and Ruth. In both cases, the players bodies had a clear backward leaning axis as they swung through the ball. Joe said that feature was common to big hitters (in baseball) and then said, "Don't chase the hands!" What a great comment and very instructive. Let those hands and arms fling around the body axis freely. Dont let the body heave forward. That is a feature seen in good golfers, too; probabaly to most pronounced, Johnny Miller.

[JohnP]

Re: Over the top - Is there one thing you can do to make it impossible?

Lump of 4" X 2" - stand it on its side about an inch away from the ball, you will get tired very quickly whacking that bit of wood and your brain will compensate by bringing you through on the inside path. Works a treat for me - cured my sh**nk attacks.

[jambalaya]

Re: Over the top - Is there one thing you can do to make it impossible?

No offense, this may work, but there is no way a human being can think of this many things in a golf swing. We need at most two things to think about and preferably one main thought in my opinion. I have had a big problem with coming outside-in and got some good advise via a lesson yesterday that has really helped out. Actually reinforced on what I was already working.

The key here is that you have to come from the inside with the club head. The path of the club head has to start, on the downswing, on a line whereby it is basically heading towards the right rough (right handers) and as you turn the club head squares to the ball. Now don't line up to the right. Line up with the target just as you always do. As you turn, the club head will square up to the target line with which you've lined up. Pick a tree or other target to your right about 30 degrees and swing to the ball on that line after you get to the top. In order to do this you really have to drop the club down close to your body.

If you find after this that you are not bringing the club quite square, a rotation of the wrists may be necessary. But in any case, you have to find a thought, a single thought preferrably that reinforces coming from the inside on the downswing. Bringing the club inside on the backswing won't do the trick.

Yes, I am quoting myself. But I just wanted to finish my thoughts on this matter of bringing the club from the inside. This idea is important in my swing. When swinging I really try to feel the weight of the club head at the end of the shaft. If you grip too tight, you only feel the shaft and the clubhead becomes kind of disconnected. I visualize the path of the clubhead as it goes back then comes down and through on the inside path towards the right. I see the face of the club pointing towards the right rough as I come down with the club.

I think this thinking has two consequences. First, in order for you to bring the clubhead on that path, your body automatically bumps forward to get out of the way. I think it also helps keep the head back without thinking as much. I am trying to figure out a way to make things happen without having to think about too many moves.

[Started2k3]

Re: Over the top - Is there one thing you can do to make it impossible?

Hey Mariner,

Try this drill the next time you are at the range.

Get a shaft from a broken club (pro shops probably have some).
Stick it in the ground 10ft infront of the ball and down the target line.
1) Try to hit the stick with the ball (club head path square to target path)
2) Try to get the ball to go to the right of the shaft (in to out)
3) Try to get the ball to go to the left of the shaft (out to in - should be easy for you).

Keep trying until you can do all three at will (remember you are only concerned with the distance from "tee" to shaft). This may mean that you need to change the ball position and truely analyze your swing to figure out what you have to adjust to your swing (grip, on plane).

Then the only thing left affecting your ball flight should be face angle at impact, which is a result of wrist rotation and grip (strong to weak).

Charles

[edshaw]

Re: Over the top - Is there one thing you can do to make it impossible?

The Tiger Woods Nike slo-motion video
should put at least one idea to rest;
namely, in a well done swing, the first
move down is not to pull the hands
straight down towards the ground.

[benben]

Re: Over the top - Is there one thing you can do to make it impossible?

I’ve learned bumping left hip towards 10-11am before and also tried with good results. But one thing struggling me often is this bumping motion shift my hip to 10-11am thus away from my tush line. Is this a normal result?

Thanks!

[mariner]

Re: Over the top - Is there one thing you can do to make it impossible?

I've been studying myself in the mirror to try and pin down the main difference in an OTT swing and a correct one at impact and it looks to me like it's the shoulders - they've got to be parallel with the target line and I think the easiest way to achieve this is to think of keeping the right shoulder back behind your right ear through impact and guard against it coming round under your chin.

[BrianW]

Re: Over the top - Is there one thing you can do to make it impossible?

I've been studying myself in the mirror to try and pin down the main difference in an OTT swing and a correct one at impact and it looks to me like it's the shoulders - they've got to be parallel with the target line and I think the easiest way to achieve this is to think of keeping the right shoulder back behind your right ear through impact and guard against it coming round under your chin.

Hi Mariner,

I have posted this link to Luke Donald's swing in some other threads. If you run it frame by frame it shows a perfect example of the way the shoulders should work through the swing, see how his right shoulder drops and stays back through impact and the follow through.

http://www.golfonline.com/golfonline...634632,00.html

[gman4500]

Re: Over the top - Is there one thing you can do to make it impossible?

pgatour website has a video to swing your right shoulder under your chin, not out past it.

[pnearn]

Re: Over the top - Is there one thing you can do to make it impossible?

Hi Mariner,

I have posted this link to Luke Donald's swing in some other threads. If you run it frame by frame it shows a perfect example of the way the shoulders should work through the swing, see how his right shoulder drops and stays back through impact and the follow through.

http://www.golfonline.com/golfonline...634632,00.html

Thats a pefect example of how the shoulders do nothing except get pulled around by the rotation of the stomach/hips

[pnearn]

Re: Over the top - Is there one thing you can do to make it impossible?

I've been studying myself in the mirror to try and pin down the main difference in an OTT swing and a correct one at impact and it looks to me like it's the shoulders - they've got to be parallel with the target line and I think the easiest way to achieve this is to think of keeping the right shoulder back behind your right ear through impact and guard against it coming round under your chin.

For the correct swing at impact Mariner have a look at Gregs impact drill. You'll see how much the hips are open at impact

A great drill is to swing in front of a wall with an old club. If you come OTT the club will hit the wall. If you turn through with the hips you'll see how the club goes inside-square-inside and misses the wall. Try it and see

[mariner]

Re: Over the top - Is there one thing you can do to make it impossible?

This all makes good sense, but I have a problem with the ball being there.
I can swing really fast on the right line with no ball and everthing looks and feels right, but when a ball is there it all changes, I come OTT and never follow through, yet I once tried to stop my practice swing where my real one stops and had to leave the course with an injured hand.
I can't explain it, it may feel like a loss of control or something that stops me letting go, but my "real" swing is slower than my practice swing and steered to try and stay online, and as I said, rarely gets beyond horizontal.

[edshaw]

Re: Over the top - Is there one thing you can do to make it impossible?

I think most of us would agree that
in the final analysis, the golf swing
is powered by the big muscles of the
back and legs.
As long as they are in charge, the
smaller elements will follow allow
obediently into the hitting zone.
(At that point, the forearms and
hands are called upon to fulfill
their critical mission.)
What we call "swinging too
fast," or "trying to kill it,"
or, "coming over the top," is,
essentially, the arms running
away with the swing.
Key thought: the big muscles take
a lot more time to move than the
little ones. Don't press.

[pnearn]

Re: Over the top - Is there one thing you can do to make it impossible?

I totally understand where you are mate .. It took me 6 months of hard practice to learn to trust what I was trying to do. SO many range sessions where it wasnt working and I was tempted just to back to my upper body/hands swing and know I could get round playing off 20 or whatever. With the season coming to a close soon perhaps take a few months off playing and put some hard yards in at the range ?