lets discuss lag

[shootin4par]

a little more in depth and get it to a basic understanding. First off what is lagg, and what is the most important aspect of maintaining lag?

[GolfJunkieSr]

Re: lets discuss lag

Lag to me is the club head following (lagging behind) the hands at impact. If the club head is not lagging behind the hands, there can not be a proper release of the club head through impact. Proper release will help to increase swing speed at the point of impact. Learning how to properly "lag" in the down swing will help create accuracy, and more distance for the golfer. The proper lag, and release will help the golf club to better do the job it was intended to do. Ever wonder how some golfers can hit a 5i 200 yards? They know the importance of "lag" and have learned to use it properly in their swing. Yes, those 200 yard 5i shots probably also involve a higher over all swing speed, but with out properly incorporating lag in the swing, those higher swing speeds are not going to get the distance they are capable of.

Anyway, that's my story, and I am sticking to it. I am sure others will give a more indepth discription. GJS

[aftford]

Re: lets discuss lag

Hi shootin

Clubhead lag is simple because every club is designed to lean forward ahead of the ball. When an iron is soled correctly, with both the leading and trailing edges on the ground, you will see that the shaft leans forward. If soled incorrectly, the shaft will lean either backward or too far forward. When a club shaft leans too far forward, the clubface loses its correct loft.
Clubhead lag is also elusive as it is not only the hands leading the clubhead, it is also the bending of the club shaft during start down. The initial force of the hands moving toward the ground bends the club shaft. , "clubhead lag promotes even and steady acceleration, assuring dependable control of distance – any amount of deceleration during the down stoke dissipates clubhead lag." Therefore, constant acceleration is needed to ensure a lagging clubhead through impact.
In every good swing at the moment of impact the club shaft is leaning forward (toward the target). The hands are in front of the ball and clubface effectively turning the six-iron into a five- or four-iron.
When the club shaft is stressed and constant acceleration is used, the player gains control of the height and distance of all their clubs. Once this technique is properly applied, it becomes indispensable. The player can then rely on his ability to use the proper amount of lag pressure at any time.
The average player arrives at impact with the hands behind the ball and the club shaft leaning backward:
This effectively adds loft and turns that six-iron into a seven- or eight-iron. If you play golf with someone who is always complaining that their irons go the same distance, that player has a backward-leaning club shaft. Clubhead lag is always present once the down stroke has begun. Good players use steady acceleration. Poor players over-accelerate, the hands reaching maximum speed before impact, thus losing the "lag." "any over-acceleration or pushing away of the club will eliminate the lag, never to be re-attained for that shot." Therefore, resist any attempt at throwing the hands at the ball or "flicking" the wrists near impact.
Remember – the hands lead and the clubhead trails.

[Martin Levac]

Re: lets discuss lag

Is lag important? Is it more important than proper contact with the ball? Does lag help produce proper contact with the ball? Is it essential to proper contact with the ball? Is lag fundamental? Can I still produce proper contact with the ball even though I don't produce lag? What is the purpose of lag? Does my quest for good lag prevent me from making proper contact with the ball?

I can answer the last question, yes it does.

It's quite simple, really. Whatever I do that sends me farther from my ultimate goal, sending a ball to a target using a club, does not help me and I shouldn't be doing it. Conversely, whatever I do that brings me closer to the same ultimate goal, helps me and I should keep doing it.

Not casting? Easy, don't think about it. The more I think about it, the less I think about what's truly important, the worse I get. Not lagging? Easy, don't think about it. The more I think about it, the less I think about what's truly important, the worse I get. I have a whole bunch of examples I can give, all with the same result, do I need to go on?

The less I think about lag or the method to produce it, the easier it is for me to actually produce it. Same goes for every other technique you can think of except making proper contact with the ball. I only think about making proper contact with the ball to send it to my target.


Martin Levac

[kbp]

Re: lets discuss lag

Proper club head lag promotes better ball contact. The club head will approach the ball on a steeper angle when you have more lag and/or a later release. Much more likely to hit the ball first and properly compress it, rather than hitting the ground first.

Please don’t fall into the trap of sacrificing fundamentals and abandoning the quest for proper technique for good ball contact at all costs. IMO, this is why most people have an over the top swing and a slice because it’s the first, easiest way for a beginner to make reasonable contact. Unfortunately, they spend the rest of their career trying to fix this fault, or they end up living with a mediocre game, or they quit the game.

[Martin Levac]

Re: lets discuss lag

Proper club head lag promotes better ball contact. The club head will approach the ball on a steeper angle when you have more lag and/or a later release. Much more likely to hit the ball first and properly compress it, rather than hitting the ground first.

Please don’t fall into the trap of sacrificing fundamentals and abandoning the quest for proper technique for good ball contact at all costs. IMO, this is why most people have an over the top swing and a slice because it’s the first, easiest way for a beginner to make reasonable contact. Unfortunately, they spend the rest of their career trying to fix this fault, or they end up living with a mediocre game, or they quit the game.

To fall in the trap of making proper contact with the ball at all costs. It's the only trap I'd like to fall into, really. I could name quite a few more traps that don't produce such good results but I've done enough damage to the orthodox method already.


Martin Levac

[lgskywalker37]

Re: lets discuss lag

Clubhead lag is always present once the down stroke has begun. Good players use steady acceleration. Poor players over-accelerate, the hands reaching maximum speed before impact, thus losing the "lag." "any over-acceleration or pushing away of the club will eliminate the lag, never to be re-attained for that shot." Therefore, resist any attempt at throwing the hands at the ball or "flicking" the wrists near impact.
Remember – the hands lead and the clubhead trails.

that steady acceleration you speak of is key, even if player have "perfect technique" and if they try too hard in the beggining and reach maximun speed to early it will be a lot less powerfull because their is no acceleratoin at impact.

[rharris06]

Re: lets discuss lag

Talented golfers are born with lag! Average golfers dont create much lag, because they are all tight and wana get to the ball as fast as they can so they use the shoulders and hands which makes them lose lag and slice and shank and hook and god knows what :-)! To play good golf, u need lag!

[Started2k3]

Re: lets discuss lag

This is long, but it was fun to write. Thanks Shootin.

Definition of Lag: "Lag to me is the club head following (lagging behind) the hands at impact." GJS

What do you have to do to get lag? - Maintain the smallest angle possible between the lead forearm and the shaft of the club for as long as possible during the downswing and still make contact (good or otherwise) with the ball. Look at some face on tour pro's swing sequences and they maintained the angle to their back thigh (7o'clock position) - Ernie Els angle ~115° and Tiger ~120° at about the same point in the swing.

How do you develop lag? - (1) Strong forearms, this is NOT grip strength but being able to manipulate a heavy hammer (sledge hammer would be excessive) using only your forearm.
(2) Practice getting the hands to about the 7o'clock position (stop the swing) and still maintain the smallest angle possible. Start slowly then build to 1/2 to 3/4 speed swings.

How is lag useful? - More lag results in increased clubhead speed at impact. This has two postive benefits to the golf swing: (1) increased initial ball speed, and (2) increased ball spin. Both should result in increased distance (independent of direction and curving).

Can lag be a detriment? - Of course, but only if you add lag and change nothing else of your swing (this would be quite nieve). Unfortunately, the clubhead is connected to your body so if you change what your body is doing then it will almost always affect the clubhead.

Are people born with lag? - No (sorry Ricky). People may have different forearm strength and flexibility, but both of these (barring infirmity of some type or laziness) can be improved. Technique, knowledge and desire to change are the most important inputs to developing lag.

Thanks again,
Charles

[aftford]

Re: lets discuss lag

Hi folks.
some food for thought: It is possible to have too much lagg , Charles Howell III has fought this for many years. If you delay the release too much, you can still end up flicking the wrist at impact becuase you find yourself playing catch up with your hands, so timing the release becomes even more important.

cheers

[pnearn]

Re: lets discuss lag

Put simply lag is achieved by a constant accelraration of the club head in the downswing. Becuause the club head is heavy and the last thing to move it will be behind the hands as they come into impact, meaning the club head has to catch up at the last minute, the conservation of angular momentum

If you hit from the top the club starts down with high accelaration. Now unless youre Tiger or Bubba you wont be able to sustain this rate of acceleration so the hands and arms slow down and the club catches up with the hands well before impact .. no lag

As Martin correctly says, this is not something you can create or indeed worry about. If you have a smooth tension free but quick downswing aiming for a constant accelration, you will get lag naturally

[BrianW]

Re: lets discuss lag

Lag is a a way of creating maximum acceleration when propelling an object forward by the leverage of the wrists and we normally do it without thinking.

Imagine hitting a nail with a hammer without the rotation of your wrists, or throwing a ball as far as possible without the rotation of your wrists, all you will get is a weak movement with poor results.

Now imagine you have an axe and you are chopping down a large tree, you pull the axe back with extended arms, cock your wrists then swing the axe back with lag in your wrists then uncock them at the last moment to produce maximum acceleration and force.

Its the same with a golf club but for some reason we seem to think to much about it and create problems. Just imagine your club is a big hammer and the ball a large nail, now have a go at driving that nail, you may be surprised at the result and that you understood LAG and the golf swing all the time

Regards
Brian

[kbp]

Re: lets discuss lag

To fall in the trap of making proper contact with the ball at all costs. It's the only trap I'd like to fall into, really. I could name quite a few more traps that don't produce such good results but I've done enough damage to the orthodox method already.
Martin Levac

Sorry, I guess I wasn’t clear. Let me edit my own statement a bit.

Please don’t fall into the trap of sacrificing fundamentals and abandoning the quest for proper technique BY INSTEAD PURSUING solid ball contact at all costs. IMO, this is why most people have an over the top swing and a slice because it’s the first, easiest way for a beginner to make reasonable contact. Unfortunately, they spend the rest of their career trying to fix this fault, or they end up living with a mediocre game, or they quit the game.

I’m trying to make a distinction between SOLID ball contact and PROPER ball contact. Not all solid contact is proper contact.

In other words, the instinctive techniques that people find in the beginning to get the club on the ball are usually wrong. With a little practice, they produce decent contact, but the ball flight is incorrect and the distance is limited. This doesn’t seem so bad.....you think, "Hey, I’m just beginner. Now that I’ve figured out how to hit the ball solid most times, I can just practice this real hard and get straighter and longer." Unfortunately, improvement and consistency is limited by the incorrect technique used to make the "solid" contact.

Back on topic....proper lag increases club head speed at impact and promotes better ball contact. It’s a result of good technique.

[golfonenemesis]

Re: lets discuss lag

The swing thought I have been promoting on this site deals with lag. In case you missed it, I like to imagine the butt end of the club swinging down the ball to target line. Even if this does not always happen perfectly, it promotes lag---hands leading and clubhead lagging---you will notice immediate speed and accuracy by using this method.
Remember: Backswing-clubhead starts and hands follow; Downswing-hands start(along with shoulders of course) and clubhead comes last.
This promotes the appearance of what you see Ernie Els do in slow rhythm and he looks so effortless doing it; watch any of his sequences and you will see his tremendous lag.
One more thing: When in doubt, take one more club; that way, you can swing easier-smoother-and create the lag; of course, lag does promote a little hooding of the clubface but watch any pro and they do exactly that.
I have played in many pro ams and the one thing all pro's tell me is Amateurs greatest fault is using too little club and relying on maximum swing speed. Even the pro's won't try this, so if they don't dare do it, none of us should either.
All of the above relies upon having a good release but I guarantee you, the release is alot easier using lag than hitting from the top.

[tpg1965]

Re: lets discuss lag

If you do not lag properly then you run the risk of losing a hell of a lot of heat through your roof. This can lead to higher fuel bills. I prefer the standard fibreglass lag. If you lag properly your house will be lovely and snug all through the winter. A good way to tell if your lagging is ok is to wait till it snows and if yours is the only house with melted snow on the roof then you are poorly lagged.

The worlds gone mad