Ball position when using Driver

[jimjconway1]

Hi. Has anyone a view on where the ball should be correctly placed for driving. I have persevered for a long, long, long time with the commonly held wisdom that the ball should be placed opposite the inside of the left ( I'm right handed) heel to enhance a sweeping motion. I play off 25 and while my long irons, short game, chipping and putting have come on well and I'm consistently hitting 32 - 36 points stapleford, my driving is totally inconsistent and if I'm doing well and get nervous and tighten up the first thing to evaporate is my drive, followed soon by everything else.

Last week, a pal looked at me driving and asked why the position of the ball so far forward. He plays off 6 and he insisted that I try placing the ball mid stance. I reluctantly forsake the gurus, nay the god of golf and had a go. I have been blasting the ball dead straight for a week.

My question. Is this a false dawn, another short burst of hope, or are there physical build issues? For example, if you are shorter and don't have long limbs is this a factor?

I'm a 5' 9" 14 stone Irish man. Perhaps that's the problem. Any thoughts!!!!

[GoNavy]

Re: Ball position when using Driver

Well are you truely playing the ball in the center of your stance or just think you are, have you layed some clubs down to verify. What people think they are doing often has no basis in reality. I have had people who tell me they play the ball 2 inches inside the left heel, only to show them after laying some clubs down, that the ball is off the left toe, perception is often wrong. However if you truely are hitting driver from the middle of your stance, I would suspect you have a bit of reverse pivot and no weight shift, the problem with this is a serious loss of power, with occassional popup due to a steep angle of approach. This also has a great deal to do with your setup, do you have a very narrow stance, sometimes a very narrow stance will allow a ball position much further back, people tend to not shift thier weight with a narrow stance. Could be any number of things, this probably sounds like a broken record, because everyone that routinesly helps people on these boards say it, without seeing your swing, it is very difficult to diagnose any propblem or even if there is a problem. Sorry I couldn't be more help

[edshaw]

Re: Ball position when using Driver

Jim:
I don't find anything that says the ball
can't be played mid stance with the driver.
If it's working for you, then that's where it
ought to be. The ball will probably wind up
just shy of off the left insole in due time,
anyway.
The teachers have it mostly wrong, anyway,
IMHO. Look, Mate, the question ought not be
where to play the ball, but where to set the
left hand. That's the factor we ought to concern
ourselves with. Once that left hand is set where
we want it, the club will tell us where to
play the ball.
And that's even more true if you follow Jack
Nicklaus' advice and make a straight line of
the left arm and the shaft. I notice a lot of
pros do set up that way.
Oh, I know that left hand can waggle back and
forth and allow quite a range of ball positions,
but, if the back of the hand is facing the target,
the left hand V is somewhat between the neck
& right shoulder, the left arm hangs naturally
down and pretty straight, the knees are slightly
bent and the shoulders are square to the target
line, that ball position is going to be wherever
the golf club insists it ought to be.
If you look carefully at that driver, you'll find
it is constructed in such a way as to place the
hands about 1.5" to 2" ahead of the ball.
Now that five iron sets the hands about 8"
ahead of the ball, does it not? Does that mean
the left hand position is supposed to change
to meet some spurious need of the 5-iron?
Hell, no.
From the other perspective,
How many times have you seen golfers reach
way out with the driver, as if the club called
that up. I'm not saying that's wrong, but I will
say that is unnecessary, (unless you intentionally
have a Moe Norman concept.)
That left hand, if you chop it down, it strikes you
right mid thigh. The teachers are wet on this one,
if for no other reason than there is no true
stance width. Sure, shoulder width is standard,
but do you have to stick to that? Don't tell
Lee Trevino that. See where I go with this?
Maybe I'm the one that's all wet, but just
some thoughts, and I think, reasoned ones.

[bill reed]

Re: Ball position when using Driver

hi edshaw
with driver the ball is more forward is because of the way the driver is used, it a low sweeping move into ball that is tee'd hi and the ball it hit on the start of the up swing, with irons you hit more down on back of ball and trap it more into the ground to inpart backswing. played near the middle with drive i know i always seem to hit it lot lower as if i have taken loft of the club.
dont you think the same
bill

[edshaw]

Re: Ball position when using Driver

I agree completely, Bill. In fact.
after posting my tirade, I was
walking the dog and thinking I
ought to make some clarifications,
otherwise, that whole posting could
do more harm than good. The
additonal information I had in mind
was to make sure the reader had
the concept of taking the ball at
different points of the swing arc,
depending on the club and the
shot. The adage is "same swing,
different club." Am I right on that?
In other words, the five is taken
earlier in the arc than the driver.
That is, the driver is the club that
contacts the ball closest to the point of
full extension, which, according to
Ben Hogan, occurs about 8" past
impact with the driver. The ball is
taken way back in the arc with the
wedge, what the pros call "trapping."
I hope I'm not just adding to the
confusion here, what do you think?

[bill reed]

Re: Ball position when using Driver

hi edshaw
yes i agree with you, you made a good point about about the extension, hogen said his full extension was past his left ankle and continued up to his knees. meaning the both arms were only ever fully extended when past the hitting zone.
the right elbow was still bent close to his hip when his club hit the ball with all full shots. also hogan had ball in same place in stance and moved his right foot closer to his left as the loft of the clubs incresed.
bill

[edshaw]

Re: Ball position when using Driver

Bill:
You are right about that setup method
Ben Hogan uses. I had forgotten all
about that. I wonder how he compensates
for the offset of the clubs as they
go higher in number. Most golfers
play the ball back, little by little.
I'll have to look at that again.

[jscerbo]

Re: Ball position when using Driver

This is fundamental. While using longer clubs, your swing plane becomes flatter. This makes perfect sense, you want to sweep the ball off of the tee. This promotes a boring trajectory. Your ball may be straight, but it may be high and lack distance. You are experiecing a short term fix, nothing more. The ball should be placed off the shirt logo. Never use your feet as a guide for ball position, use your sternum. This is your swing center. It is a common tendency to hang off your back foot(by this I mean your weight is not transferring to your left side)

[bill reed]

Re: Ball position when using Driver

hi edshaw
page 125 of hogan's book shows how he set up. what a lot of people dont realise is he always set up with a driver with his setup closed, ie his right foot few inches back from square and as clubs went up on loft his right foot moved towards the ball but also forward. so his feet were squre to target with mid iron and open with short iron and wedges more. i understand what your saying jecerbo but if you use your hips and have a lateral slid to start to move weight from back foor forward then you will not have that hang back and from big toe to shirt logo will work fine for most to have that choice of moving it high to a little bit lower in ball tragectory.
bill

[jimjconway1]

Re: Ball position when using Driver

I feel a lot better now that I realize there are a lot of different opinions on the subject.

Just to throw another spanner in, spare a thought for those of us who find it difficult enough to concentrate on one and at a push two swing thoughts. I have tried very hard to imagine and feel weight transfer etc but as soon as I let those thoughts appear mid swing, watch out passing squirrels, I'm in the trees.

The only time I hit the ball well is when I feel totally blank and just hit it. To answer some earlier contributors who have asked how I normally hit the ball, when I am playing well I hit a driver 270 with a slight draw and a 9 iron 125 yards straight. An 8 is 140, a 7 155, a 6 170 and a 5 185. I am not confident with a 4 or 3.

Realy enjoying the interest being shown

[cb44]

Re: Ball position when using Driver

I feel a lot better now that I realize there are a lot of different opinions on the subject.

Just to throw another spanner in, spare a thought for those of us who find it difficult enough to concentrate on one and at a push two swing thoughts. I have tried very hard to imagine and feel weight transfer etc but as soon as I let those thoughts appear mid swing, watch out passing squirrels, I'm in the trees.

The only time I hit the ball well is when I feel totally blank and just hit it. To answer some earlier contributors who have asked how I normally hit the ball, when I am playing well I hit a driver 270 with a slight draw and a 9 iron 125 yards straight. An 8 is 140, a 7 155, a 6 170 and a 5 185. I am not confident with a 4 or 3.

Realy enjoying the interest being shown

You sound like me when it comes to swing thoughts--no thoughts and I am fine. W/thoughts, who knows where the ball will go. Interestingly, my distances are virtually identical to yours.

[jimjconway1]

Re: Ball position when using Driver

You sound like me when it comes to swing thoughts--no thoughts and I am fine. W/thoughts, who knows where the ball will go. Interestingly, my distances are virtually identical to yours.

Hi cb. One of the reasons i started this thread was that recently my game has improved a lot and i have started shooting better than my handicap. All of a sudden, in two competitions in a row i am in serious contention after 16 holes. WHAM! I start getting nervous over my drive, the brain starts interfering and by the 18th green i can hit a 20 yard pitch and I honestly feel its because I am not sure of my driving. Don't know if you have ever experienced it?