tempo myth

[golfonenemesis]

Re: tempo myth

Tiger is just like everyone else except he has played since he was born while others have not. Tiger has not worked for a living, has not had to think of anything else but golf. He has had special this and that instruction, psych, training, etc. all his life. Could we all be that great, probably 50% of us could.

[bill reed]

Re: tempo myth

thanks mickey
bill

[2pe]

Re: tempo myth

hi kbp
moe norman and ben hogan and also lee trevino. none of the 3 used anyone but there self's to work out any swing changes the needed as the knew there swings better than any one else, you imaging someone trying trying to get trevino to swing on a diffrent plane.
bill

Considering that the release time to reach the impact should takes less than 0.04 seconds, most of the time consumed by tempo, is really the time to assure the control of the club head path during the take away and mostly at the top swing, including the transition and the beginning of the down swing. So I assume that, the tempo is the total time that takes the club head to travel the distance from the take away to the impact at different speed (stop_accelerate_de-accelerate_stop_accelerate_release_impact. And the time elapsed by the club head at top swing is part of the back swing so the ratio is the time of the back swing divided by the time from the top swing to the release point. How accurate are these assumptions?

[BrianW]

Re: tempo myth

Considering that the release time to reach the impact should takes less than 0.04 seconds, most of the time consumed by tempo, is really the time to assure the control of the club head path during the take away and mostly at the top swing, including the transition and the beginning of the down swing. So I assume that, the tempo is the total time that takes the club head to travel the distance from the take away to the impact at different speed (stop_accelerate_de-accelerate_stop_accelerate_release_impact. And the time elapsed by the club head at top swing is part of the back swing so the ratio is the time of the back swing divided by the time from the top swing to the release point. How accurate are these assumptions?

Well put 2pe.

A smooth tempo is required to ensure balance and good positioning prior to release of the club through impact. As you suggest most of the club head acceleration happens at the brief moment before contact with the ball so most of the swing is a preparation for it. The best players seem to have settled on this 3:1 ratio (or very near to it) which must suit their game.

Regards
Brian

[bill reed]

Re: tempo myth

hi 2pe
yes thats right, it takes three times as long to swing back into the right setup as it does to swing down to the ball. backswing. 0.90 of a second going back and 0.30 of a second down into ball
bill

[kbp]

Re: tempo myth

Tiger is just like everyone else except he has played since he was born while others have not. Tiger has not worked for a living, has not had to think of anything else but golf. He has had special this and that instruction, psych, training, etc. all his life. Could we all be that great, probably 50% of us could.

There are thousands and thousands of kids who have been groomed for a particular athletic career their entire life, like Tiger. He is nowhere near unique in this regard. This has been going on for a long time, not only in golf, but in tennis, gymnastics, figure skating, etc. Most will never be great. Occasionally, one these kids grows up to compete at the highest levels. Rarely, they find some success at this highest level. Once in a blue moon, they’re successful enough to be considered one in a handful of greats. JMO.

[jambalaya]

Re: tempo myth

Optical illusion! i think thats the best way to describe some of the great golf swings some look fast others slow like ernie els.I agree ernie is a tall guy with a greater radius in his swing ,which i think it would take longer in time to complete ,but it dosent he has the same tempo[time]as most.I have to be honest i got ernies tempo time wrong its 1.10 secs not 1.07 like woods.Ernie 0.80 back 0.30 down perfect 3to 1.Tigers got a problem if you go by tour tempo ,tiger 0.80 back 0.27 down,hes a fraction out,thats why he only came first at the british open .As for changing your tempo of the swing I was always told no no and no never do it!!GUESS who changed his tempo and won a major title?

Change tempo? Ha! I wish I had a consistent tempo I could think about changing. How does one find a tempo and keep it?

[aftford]

Re: tempo myth

Change tempo? Ha! I wish I had a consistent tempo I could think about changing. How does one find a tempo and keep it?

Hi Jam.

Your body swings the golf club and performs the biomechanics of the golf swing. In order to perform the biomechanics of the golf swing correctly. It is necessary for your body to have certain levels of flexibility, balance, endurance, strength, and power. If your body is lacking any of this aforementioned list learning the biomechanics of the golf swing correctly will be very difficult. A golf fitness program is the final key to developing tempo in your golf swing.

cheers
aft

[BrianW]

Re: tempo myth

Change tempo? Ha! I wish I had a consistent tempo I could think about changing. How does one find a tempo and keep it?

Jambalaya,

Well this helped me, I hope it helps you?

Think of your clubhead as the car on a roller coaster ride, the tracks of the roller coaster follow the path the clubhead takes throughout the swing. Now imagine the takeaway and movement to the top of the backswing, the car will progressively slow as it goes up at the top it will stop then start down again progressively gaining acceleration until it reaches maximum speed at the bottom then gradually slowing again as it raises through the follow through.

Regards
Brian

[bill reed]

Re: tempo myth

hi jambalaya
get a metranome one you can put in pocked with earphones and set it to 80 beat a min then go for a walk, try and ajust it to a beat ever pace you walk, get it to where its in yout tempo. thats you setting for everything
next move to your golf swing, you will have 4 beats
one take away slow
two full back swing
three contact with ball.
4 full follow through
you may be hitting at 120 beats or 70 beats but its your tempo
at first you will find it hard to keep up try swining to 70% backswing at first
hope this helps
bill

[2pe]

Re: tempo myth

Hi Bill
A musician told me that you are right about tempo. He suggests that we can have a quick idea about 80 beats per minute with the help of a wrist watch, tapping one foot a series of five times four, in 15 seconds.
Two beats for the back swing, one for the down swing and one for the followthrough makes a 2:1 ratio, instead 3:1 discused early. What did I miss? Thanks.

[bill reed]

Re: tempo myth

hi 2pe
yes your right about 4 beats, in the tour tempo book the last beat is when club hits ball but there should be one more, on one last beat ( the 4th) at the end of the follow through so you have that high finnish, the 3/1 is 2 beats back and one to the ball but irs really 2 beats back and 2 to a high finnish but beat 3 is the one that you make contact with the ball. thanks for pointing that out 2pe. its more a ( one = and = two = and.) that (1 = 2 = 3 = 4)
bill

[edshaw]

Re: tempo myth

Here's a quick talk on tempo that's
brought some back from the dead:
If there is one thing most good golfers
agree on, it is that the golf swing is
driven by the upper body. The more
we can key off the trunk, the more
consistent and powerful.
Tempo is, in essence, the rhythm
the torso beats as it coils and uncoils.
Think back, down, and through. Forget
about the arms for a second. This is
big picture stuff.
The reason for a controlled tempo is
to keep the body in charge of the
swing.
So, whether the swing is fast or slow,
does not matter. Tiger has the ability
to turn his upper body faster. Everything
is faster. But that's Tiger and his talent
level. It's relative. He's still keying off
his upper body (and legs.) There's really
no other way.

[bill reed]

Re: tempo myth

hi edshaw
when looking at clips on tour tempo and other pro clips i think one thing that is same in all good powerful swings is when player swings back to top of swing the hips start the downswing and almost every time the hips sway to target as hands and club head is still swinnging back. this seemed to put the shaft into a bend and lag, someting i dont see in us handicaped golfers. i think this gives then the swing speed and also that 21-7 swing tempo. there is no pause in the start of the downswing as hips move before hands finnish backswing. if you start looking at clips frame by frame you see this every time and on bad shops as tour tempo sat the backswing slows to a 13-7 and the hands finnish the backswing before hips move and start the weight shift to leaft foot. it seems tour tempo do have something about tempo and pro player but i think the timing of there downswing and way its starts before there back swing finishes is the big diffrence tou the pro's and us.
let me know what you think when you look at tiger and phill frame by frame.
try swinging with a full swing but start hips before hands get to top of swing, i did this an swing speed went from 96 up to 106. i have to put more worl into it as only found this out other week
bill

[edshaw]

Re: tempo myth

Absolutely right about the hip turn, Bill. That's
a classic move that has only been deemphasized
recently. The Tiger slo-mo shows "the move"
very clearly. If you recall, that leading the swing
with a hip turn while letting the arms and shoulders
follow was referred to by pros and teachers alike
for years as "the move."
Still, I don't analyze the hips and the upper body
as separate entities.

Taking a tip from pro baseball players, today's pros
joke about, "giving it the onion." If you have heard this,
it likens the upper body to an onion -- the ribs and
associated bones wrapped in muscle layers like an onion.
"Giving it the onion" is pouring on the power of the
upper body.

Before I ever heard that, I had invented my own metaphor,
not so colorful or amusing. I lkened the upper body to
an electrical wire, wrapped with insulation. The
twisting and untwisting of the insulation
caused to body mass to build up and release power.

Incidentally, I wouldn't sell yourself or the amateur
players short. If you did nothing but play golf, played on
only the best courses with 3 or better players, you'd be
surprised at how your scores would come down.