GolfBald

[DatMan]

GolfBald,

I believe you have said that there are some inaccuracies in The Golfing Machine...Can you point them out?

An can you describe the MIke Austin throwing action and how to do it while still maintaining a flat left wrist at impact?

THANKS

[Golfbald]

DatMan,

I would be happy too. On the Golf Machine, I am doing some computer upgrades right now. I need a bigger hard drive and faster CPU. I have everything backed up to tape. I will get you that answer as soon as it's up.

The Mike Austin answer, has to do with forward press. It is a timing motion before the backswing starts to: 1. get the body in motion for a smooth takeaway and 2. To take the angle out of the left wrist into a flat position, timed with a slight kick in with the right knee to flatten the wrist. It took a long time for me to figure out how to do this and not open the club face. Once I learned that motion, the rest of the swing was easy.

The common motion I see in a straight takeaway with no press is: the clubface comes to a closed position on the takeaway because the left wrist moves backward to flatten the wrist. A compensating move is made and usually over done to correct this and a slice results from the overcompensation to an open clubface. (Wrist Roll)

Dr. Austin's technique puts the swing on plane early. It looks on tape like the backswing is coming more to the inside but if you check it it is on plane.. It is also a balanced position. Everywhere you read about what the left arm is doing in the swing. Dr. Austin believes both arms are important. Reading some research material he produced, I would agree with most of his concepts. The information he has produced on what the right arm does in a golf swing and how the hips rotate are priceless.

The throwing motion Dr. Austin taught comes by releasing the club head from the top with a throwing motion similar to casting (straightening the right elbow and right wrist) with the coordination of the hips. I think in the Golf Machine it is refered to as a four accumulator swing. The Holy Grail of swing techniques! The downswing to impact happens in about 3-4/10ths of a second. The swing looks similar to a Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds baseball swing, fluid and powerful. It is a motion that requires full commitment to swing properly.

I would say the average golfer could use his grip/setup/posture measurement technique and hit the ball much straighter but the swing technique would require some work. I don't know too many teachers that teach this technique. But I see and tape alot of pros swings, most of the long hitters use variations of this technique. Watch for that little "move" before the club comes back. You will know what I mean.

I can relate what I have learned, but sometimes I have a hard time expressing in writing what I have learned. If you have specific questions, please direct them my way. I will answer them the best I can.

GolfBald

[Cliff]

DatMan

Have you herd the saying leave the shoulder behind!!

Well let me explain what this means in golfing terms.

When you reach the top of your back swing and momentarily transfer some weight back to your left foot, it is quite noticeable with many amateurs me included up until I studied the video what was meant by this great idea.

First you must try to understand things move very quickly when you are about to transfer back down into the hitting area, so I will type sloooooowly ok.

The area that is affected with this adjustment in the transfer will help many golfers to initiate a pro swing with less energy used and a more powerful strike/impact.

The feeling of leaving the shoulder behind you and dropping the arms away and inside just a touch while retaining your wrist angle then continue through to impact and a good follow through.

This means not starting the downswing with the right shoulder that is used by many players, manly due to the thinking the faster I swing the father it goes!!

So try it out please it works for all the players young and old, try to understand the benefit of this simple move.

I did and it sure does work for me.

I have tried hard over the past few years to search out this clip on the Internet but to no avail. Shame because it will serve many players with the knowledge and understanding of the true downswing move. That will generate energy and pure timing.

[DatMan]

?

Cliff,

What are you talking about? That has nothing to do with my questions...

[Golfbald]

Datman,

I was looking through my notes. I found one note from some lab testing I conducted on the pressure points of the fingers in relation to the left last three fingers(#2) and right index finger (#3) mentioned in 6-C-1 #2 and #3 and again in 6-C-2-A.

The pressure points in the hands in relation to the golf swing can only be one of two sets the thumb and first two fingers (index and middle) [Median Nerve]make up one set of nerves and other two ring and pinky [Ulnar Nerve]. The test was what fingers work best together in the swing and where and when do the fingers tighten and loosen in the swing.

From the results, 6-C-1 #2 should read the last 2 fingers of the left hand. The middle finger would activate a different set of nerves thereby adding additional pressure to the grip. The thumb, index and middle fingers of the left hand cause additional tension, the last two only cause passive resistance and should be used.

Following that 6-C-1 #3 should be the middle finger in the takeaway and wrist cock provide the pressure point, at the top of the back swing the thumb is the pressure point and the index finger takes over on the through swing all working in balance. No mention of the these two additional pressure points are included.

Nerve groups work better together, the test as best I can recall, I did this several years ago, was pressure pads were put on each finger and where the club touches the hands, a monitor recorded the pressure at points in static positions in the swing to get a baseline. Then 20 swings were recorded in real time. Different grip pressures as measured by machine. In all cases, the last two fingers of the left and and first three fingers of the right hand were best as the pressure points. These additional points are not mentioned.

You could possibly make a argument for the heel of the left hand in the takeaway and wrist cock as the the pushing down of the left heel of the hand and the pressure point of the right middle finger (not mentioned as a pressure points) cause the wrist cock.

The other two points are valid, the right heel of the hand is a pressure point, easily seen.

The left arm contact point is valid as the left arm folds on the backswing and unfolds on the through swing is technically a minor pressure point.

This text was compressed from a greater volume of information. Homer may have sought to simplify these concepts without loosing the total meaning and complicating the pressure point issue.

Datman, I'll read through my notes and post to this thread from time to time.

GolfBald

[Cliff]

Sorry DaTman

" The throwing motion Dr. Austin taught comes by releasing the club head from the top with a throwing motion similar to casting (straightening the right elbow and right wrist) with the coordination of the hips. I think in the Golf Machine it is refered to as a four accumulator swing. The Holy Grail of swing techniques! The downswing to impact happens in about 3-4/10ths of a second. The swing looks similar to a Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds baseball swing, fluid and powerful. It is a motion that requires full commitment to swing properly"

Had some bearing on my post!!

But if you cant grasp it np....

[DatMan]

Originally posted by Cliff Sorry DaTman

" The throwing motion Dr. Austin taught comes by releasing the club head from the top with a throwing motion similar to casting (straightening the right elbow and right wrist) with the coordination of the hips. I think in the Golf Machine it is refered to as a four accumulator swing. The Holy Grail of swing techniques! The downswing to impact happens in about 3-4/10ths of a second. The swing looks similar to a Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds baseball swing, fluid and powerful. It is a motion that requires full commitment to swing properly"

Had some bearing on my post!!

But if you cant grasp it np....

That is NOT a four barrel (accumulator) swing!! Four accumulator swing means you are using four pressure points to load the four power angle (accumulators).

[Golfbald]

Get a grip

Datman,

Or is this the infamous Ragman in disguise!!!! Most folks are not so technically oriented toward their golf. Some folks like myself and others just have a love and passion for playing the game. I love to research things. If you want to pick on someone please do it to me and me alone. I'm a big boy with thick skin. I don't want your attitude toward others to get them upset and move away from the best golf forum I've seen. Cliff is a very elegant writer. I enjoy his posts, they are like a breath of fresh air. An answer is what the reader gets out of the information at their level and understanding. What good is an answer that the student can't relate to. Subjects can always be revisited at a later date an a more indepth level.

Now as to your answer to Cliff, this was an illustration answer not a technical answer about Mike Austins swing. The action of the of the move from the top have everything to do with pressure points. Any action of the body in the golf swing cause some type of pressure or relief of pressure inthe hands. I believe Homer's book is incomplete in this respect but his research papers in this case were probably similar.

I can't think off hand of any other accurate testing other than pressure sensitive gloves to record the readings and test more points in real time. I would love to redo this test with wireless gloves, the wires were a real detriment to the test. Also I would setup more contact points.

To respond to your answer to Cliff, and your love for Homer's book your explaination for this motion would be found in 6-B-1-D Extensor Action. This section I found validated Dr. Austin's use of the right hand and arm movement in the swing. The only difference in his swing technique and this text is the forward press to flatten the left wrist. Dr. Austins swing looks like it comes too much to the inside on the backswing, it is because of the forward press but it is easier to keep on plane because of this. The forward press may be considered a compensating move but in keeping the club on plane it is an accurate movement.

Just so you know, the questions of this testing came about because I had surgery on my right elbow and the ulner nerves had to be moved above the elbow joint. If I bent my right elbow in certain ways my fingers would go numb and my fingers would feel dead but in two groups. After speaking with a nerological specialist he explain this too me. After the surgery, I wanted to find out more about the pressure points and why they were causing me such trouble. Mine is not a definitive work. It was ment to answer my question and what I needed to do to be able to play golf again. I had to take 6 months off for rehab.

GolfBald

[greghutton]

POSTING COURTESY

I have noticed that some of the forum posts have been a little unfriendly. I have contacted those responsible.

The members forums at golftuitiononline.com are there for you to help each other and not put each other's ideas/views down.

Please bear this in mind before posting in the future. Any member thought to be disrupting the froums will be banned from posting.

REMEMBER: Learning should be fun!!!

[Cliff]

Golfbald

DaTMan & friends...

I have no problem with comments good or bad.

I am old enough and wise enough to understand the frustration of folks that are trying to perfect this wonderful game called golf.

The secret is out their for each and every one of us to piece together our own little puzzle, with the help of a good pro of course.

We reach our goal our handicap and then strive to improve upon it, sometimes reluctant to change your grip or stance because of fear of failure.

The tendencies are to look too deep into a golf swing that will inevitably cloud the mind.

If you have the ability to switch on and off, allowing you to clear any mechanics out of your swing while practicing/playing then go for it.

But be well aware it has been known destroy many a good golfer.

Good luck on your quest DaTMan.

[Golfbald]

Datman,

I think Greg runs a top shelf forum. I don't have to buy anything, I don't get spammed or popups out the wazzu when I am on. I get to talk to people from all over the world. It's relaxing.

I can see you are on a quest, a search for the elusive golfing Grail. The ultimate truth of the game. That is a great endevour, and I applaud you for that effort. Seek ye the truth. There are those who are not so enlightened as you. They have not scaled to the summit of the golf mountain to look down on all those who do not share the light and thin air of the celestial plane of your golf being. Please not look down on those who have not found that which you know. This is a game for a lifetime, folks have a long time to get there.

Now for your observation about about the flat right wrist. I like that setup for chipping and putting. On a full swing, I think it would promote a strong wrist setup and a flatter swing. The younger crowd I teach favor that setup. Most of them are as flexable as Gumby and get more distance with that setup. As long as they don't try to roll the wrists through impact they are fine.


I do agree Dr. Austin's swing stays on the elbow plane all the way to the top. It feels very relaxed when it is done correctly. Much practice is involved to get it right. Once you get the groove of it, it is very repeatable and holds up under pressure.


GolfBald

[Golfbald]

Datman,

I corrected a post from earlier about the nerve group names. Looking into another set of notes I took about that test, the median nerve controls the thumb, index and middle finger and half of the ring finger. The ulnar nerve controls the other half of the ring finger and the pinky.

Just wanted to clarify those points,

Golfbald