Shoulder turn:

[Teevino]

Early on in trying to find and tame my golf swing I noticed the importance of a full shoulder turn. I would even follow my backswing back with my eyes about, or at least, a quarter of the way to ensure a good shoulder turn. On the course it helped but of course didn't solve all of my problems so I eventually abandoned it for more of a halfswing or club to parallel, cock and then fire. Doing this and implementing many other adjustments to my swing over the past 8 months has cut many strokes off of my still very new game.

However I continued to be unhappy with a lack of consistency with my driver and approach shots (chipping is my strong suit and putting appears about average for right now. Though I know I could take 5 strokes off my game right now with better putting.) Control and consistency got better but still too unpredictable.

Anyhow, reading all the suggestion of the importance of a full shoulder turn at this forum and other places prompted me to go back to it this weekend (without following the club with my eyes.) I felt awkward and out of control when turning that much but the results have been wonderful. I am still a bit mystified by how the "clubhead finds the ball" with this swing. No, I haven't cut 10 or even 5 more strokes off my game overnight (or yet) but I am hitting fairways with my driver 95% of the time and making very good contact on approach and hitting straight shots more ofter than not. The two guys I played with this past Sunday, who I've played with before, even remarked on my ball contact.

Just wanted to follow up on this and let ya'll know how things are going. For this newbie I've had to leave some fundatmentals behind while working on other more basic parts of the swing i.e. grip, spine angle and relaxation just to name a few. And am now gradually trying to put more of it together. I'm sure that will always be the case huh??

Let me say, I am just extremely grateful that I have my health today and can play "the game."

[pnearn]

Re: Shoulder turn:

Great Stuff !

When you turn your shoulders in the backswing do you feel your arms/hands being really passive and just going along for the ride? Do you also feel your back to the target at the top?

If so youve gone a long way to mastering a working backswing IMHO

[RandomHero1090]

Re: Shoulder turn:

...misconception of a 3/4 backswing is that you either barely make or don't make a shoulder turn.

When I make a 3/4 backswing, I still turn my shoulders, but my arms don't get higher than 10 o'clock.

When I swing like that, like pnearn said, my arms just go along for the ride.

[Teevino]

Re: Shoulder turn:

Great Stuff !

When you turn your shoulders in the backswing do you feel your arms/hands being really passive and just going along for the ride? Do you also feel your back to the target at the top?

If so youve gone a long way to mastering a working backswing IMHO

Hello pnearn, yes and yes. That is why it seems mystifying to me. How the club just finds the ball. I'm not aiming at it in any way just swinging the club and it comes across the ball beautifully. Back to the target like that is what makes me "feel" so out of control. Until I swing and see and feel the result of course.

Hello Random, I hear what you are saying and I am thinking about those mechanics. I was warming up (I say warming up, it's hot as hades outside)with the half/3/4 swing this evening and then started doing a full shoulder turn. I meant to pay attention to whether I was actually doing anything different other than turning more but slipped my mind. I was starting to swim in sweat. I plan to dissect that soon. Probably not. Probably just turning more with the same swing as you say. Actually I think thats why it works so well. Club to parallel, cock and swing is fundamentally sound so adding more shoulder turn is just rounding it out. Does this make sense? Seems to to me.

Thanx to both of you for the reply. I appreciate the feedback.

[pnearn]

Re: Shoulder turn:

What do you mean by "cock and swing"? Are you doing anything conciously with your wrists? If so be careful there as what you are doing by just turning your shoulders and doing nothing with your arms and hands is letting the club go back perfectly on your shoulder plane. If you think dead arms and hands your wrists will set naturally as you turn.

This is why you are hitting the ball so well as you are making a full shoulder turn (not a "fake" turn one would make when only using the arms/hands). When you swing down from there it is far easier to hit the ball. Less moving parts, less need for timing, booom!

[Teevino]

Re: Shoulder turn:

What do you mean by "cock and swing"? Are you doing anything conciously with your wrists? If so be careful there as what you are doing by just turning your shoulders and doing nothing with your arms and hands is letting the club go back perfectly on your shoulder plane. If you think dead arms and hands your wrists will set naturally as you turn.

This is why you are hitting the ball so well as you are making a full shoulder turn (not a "fake" turn one would make when only using the arms/hands). When you swing down from there it is far easier to hit the ball. Less moving parts, less need for timing, booom!

I hear what you are saying. I'll check myself on that next time I'm practicing. For now, I do not think I am doing a "conscious" cock when making a full swing. Understand that the beginning of my swing is a bit unorthodox. I waggle then cup my right wrist and then begin the move back.

[Simon Woo]

Re: Shoulder turn:

I'm surprised shootin hasn't jumped in on this yet :P

I find that if I don't cup/cock my wrists consciously, ie. as pnearn puts it - to let them go for the ride, they seem to set a bit too late in my swing and really screws things up for me. Jim, you're already doing what shootin has been advocating - cup and set the wrists earlier. For me this seems to work because an early set of the wrists mean I can then just concentrate on the shoulder turn and keeping everything else still.

[mont86]

Re: Shoulder turn:

Teevino sorry if I missed it. But you are following the club back? If so how far? 1/4of the way?

[Teevino]

Re: Shoulder turn:

I'm surprised shootin hasn't jumped in on this yet :P

I find that if I don't cup/cock my wrists consciously, ie. as pnearn puts it - to let them go for the ride, they seem to set a bit too late in my swing and really screws things up for me. Jim, you're already doing what shootin has been advocating - cup and set the wrists earlier. For me this seems to work because an early set of the wrists mean I can then just concentrate on the shoulder turn and keeping everything else still.

Hello Simon, first of all when I waggle it really relaxes my arms, hands, shoulders, etc... and it is actually a reminder to relax. Then I finish with the club waggled back which cups my wrist and I start my backswing. Works for me. And for me, cupping the wrist on approach and chip shots is an absolute. Glad to hear you are doing this as well and I assume it works for you as well.

Hello mont86, I use to follow the clubhead back anywhere from a 1/4 to 1/2 and sometimes more to ensure good shoulder turn. I would then turn my eyes back to the ball before starting the forward motion on my swing. It worked well but when I played with others I was rather subconscious about there noticing me doing this. And they did. Some offered that it was a bad habit that I shouldn't pick up etc.. Anyhow, I don't follow it anymore, I just try to ensure on my back swing that I am getting a good full turn. Ball is going straighter and I was still hitting the fairways yesterday with my driver. I hit it more often than players I play with who have been playing the game a lot longer than me. That isn't to say that they don't do a full shoulder turn. When I watch their swings they turn very well, but it seems to fit the rest of my swing better than some for some reason. At least for now in terms of consistency. Keeping my swing relaxed and smooth makes all the difference as well.