Cupped at the top

[aftford]

Re: Cupped at the top

Hi Aftford

Sorry if I am missing something here. Surely a strong or weak grip will rotate the forearms in relation to the club alignment, not cause cupping at the top but changing the angle of the clubface relative to the ground and your left forearm thus creating a more open or closed face at impact?

Best Regards
Brian

Well Brian.
all i can say is ...try it and note the position of the wrists at the top of the backswing for both grips.

The ideal position at the top of the backswing is...
left wrist should be slightly cupped ( not flat ). the clubface should be parallel to the left forearm. this position is not achievable with anything other than a neutral grip.
cheers .
aft

[BrianW]

Re: Cupped at the top

Well Brian.
all i can say is ...try it and note the position of the wrists at the top of the backswing for both grips.

The ideal position at the top of the backswing is...
left wrist should be slightly cupped ( not flat ). the clubface should be parallel to the left forearm. this position is not achievable with anything other than a neutral grip.
cheers .
aft

Hi Aftford

Sorry, I think I was agreeing with you then, stronger or weaker grips will increase or decrease the face angle in relation to the forearm.

Cheers Brian

[aftford]

Re: Cupped at the top

Hi Aftford

Sorry, I think I was agreeing with you then, stronger or weaker grips will increase or decrease the face angle in relation to the forearm.

Cheers Brian

No worries mate.
My only concern ( like you ) is helping these two chaps to overcome their problems and i just think we have to investigate all possibilities.

cheers brian.

aft

[jesperparnevik]

Re: Cupped at the top

My grip is pretty neutral, ever so slightly strong if anything. When I try to flatten my wrist at the top I get into all sorts of problems, you name it...tops, thins, shanks, hooks everything. When I swing without trying to flatten my wrist, it's generally ok. Not consistent though. What IS consistent about my swing though is lack of power and penetration. I've tried the hands leading into impact and it doesn't make a significant difference. My driver isn't as bad as my irons for lack of distance but I reckon I could/should be longer with that too. I've put two of my swings up before, here they are again if you can spot anything. (You'll notice my cupped left wrist on my 7 iron down the line) (These were taken last winter at my course BTW, hence the mats etc)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjiaP...e=user&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoEeSPzP494

[RandomHero1090]

Re: Cupped at the top

I usually have 2 knuckles showing on my left hand (righty).

[BrianW]

Re: Cupped at the top

My grip is pretty neutral, ever so slightly strong if anything. When I try to flatten my wrist at the top I get into all sorts of problems, you name it...tops, thins, shanks, hooks everything. When I swing without trying to flatten my wrist, it's generally ok. Not consistent though. What IS consistent about my swing though is lack of power and penetration. I've tried the hands leading into impact and it doesn't make a significant difference. My driver isn't as bad as my irons for lack of distance but I reckon I could/should be longer with that too. I've put two of my swings up before, here they are again if you can spot anything. (You'll notice my cupped left wrist on my 7 iron down the line) (These were taken last winter at my course BTW, hence the mats etc)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjiaP...e=user&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoEeSPzP494

Cant see clearly whether your wrist has excessive bowing but I did notice something else. You are lifting your right shoulder just before impact and heaving it around to the left, this is removing your spine angle and making you lift up on the shot, all the problems you are describing can be related to this. Look at this video of Luke Donald's swing and see the way his right shoulder drops and stays down and back through impact (You can run it frame by frame).

http://www.golfonline.com/golfonline...634632,00.html

Regards
Brian

[aftford]

Re: Cupped at the top

My grip is pretty neutral, ever so slightly strong if anything. When I try to flatten my wrist at the top I get into all sorts of problems, you name it...tops, thins, shanks, hooks everything. When I swing without trying to flatten my wrist, it's generally ok. Not consistent though. What IS consistent about my swing though is lack of power and penetration. I've tried the hands leading into impact and it doesn't make a significant difference. My driver isn't as bad as my irons for lack of distance but I reckon I could/should be longer with that too. I've put two of my swings up before, here they are again if you can spot anything. (You'll notice my cupped left wrist on my 7 iron down the line) (These were taken last winter at my course BTW, hence the mats etc)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjiaP...e=user&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoEeSPzP494

Hi Pal .
Your backswing is excellent and i cannot fault it . Your clubface position is correct at the top of the backswing. The start of your downswing is again superb.
Now for the bad news .
If you pause your swing at impact you will notice that your hips are very square ( should be slightly open with square shoulders ). your feet are both flat on the floor which tells me that you have not managed to transfer your weight onto your left foot ( right heel should be raised slightly at impact with your right knee pointing inwards ). When you eventually transfer your weight , it is too late and you look as though you are leaning away from the target slightly . This is giving you a very narrow follow through with your left elbow pointing upwards after impact ( the dreaded chicken wing ) .

These faults are very simple to correct and you are well on your way to an excellent swing.

I'm going to send you some drills to help with the points i have mentioned .

cheers
aft

[jesperparnevik]

Re: Cupped at the top

Hi Pal .
Your backswing is excellent and i cannot fault it . Your clubface position is correct at the top of the backswing. The start of your downswing is again superb.
Now for the bad news .
If you pause your swing at impact you will notice that your hips are very square ( should be slightly open with square shoulders ). your feet are both flat on the floor which tells me that you have not managed to transfer your weight onto your left foot ( right heel should be raised slightly at impact with your right knee pointing inwards ). When you eventually transfer your weight , it is too late and you look as though you are leaning away from the target slightly . This is giving you a very narrow follow through with your left elbow pointing upwards after impact ( the dreaded chicken wing ) .

These faults are very simple to correct and you are well on your way to an excellent swing.

I'm going to send you some drills to help with the points i have mentioned .

cheers
aft

Any luck with those drills Aftford?
Cheers

[BrianW]

Re: Cupped at the top

Hi,

There is certainly a relationship to a strong or weak grip and any cup in the left wrist. I found this video lesson that describes it well:

http://www.ritson-sole.com/golftips/2006/feb06.htm

Regards
Brian

[jesperparnevik]

Re: Cupped at the top

Cant see clearly whether your wrist has excessive bowing but I did notice something else. You are lifting your right shoulder just before impact and heaving it around to the left, this is removing your spine angle and making you lift up on the shot, all the problems you are describing can be related to this. Look at this video of Luke Donald's swing and see the way his right shoulder drops and stays down and back through impact (You can run it frame by frame).

http://www.golfonline.com/golfonline...634632,00.html

Regards
Brian

Hey Brian, I was at my course today for a bit of a practise and I tried what you suggested about keeping my right shoulder lower through impact and it seemed to make a real difference, got a little more length (could still do with more!) but my shots were a lot more solid and crisp. That was my only swing thought on EVERY SHOT including, chips, drives, pitches even on my putting! Helps me stay commited to the shot! I've been practising a weight shift drill that I got from Artford. Thanks guys

[Simon Woo]

Re: Cupped at the top

Jesper, I'm interested to see how you go from here. I wonder..

1) Have you tried bowing the left wrist at the top? I know it might seem extreme but it could actually put you on the right path of actually feeling what you should be doing. A video subsequently might show more clearly, this bowing feeling might actually be the correct flat position you are striving for.

2) With a flat wrist at the top, you feel that the downswing is out of sorts. I wonder if that's because you have been very used to manipulating the club back to the correct position at impact, therefore now with a flat wrist at the top, the downswings feels completely new. It could be a good thing, meaning you are on the right path of un-manipulating your downswing?

I've been fighting with this issue myself for a long time. Even now when I swing to the top naturally, I think I still cup my left wrist. In order to fight that, I've even resorted to shortening my backswing.

[LowPost42]

Re: Cupped at the top

Hi,

There is certainly a relationship to a strong or weak grip and any cup in the left wrist. I found this video lesson that describes it well:

http://www.ritson-sole.com/golftips/2006/feb06.htm

Regards
Brian

Helluva video, Brian. It certainly explains a lot for me. My 'swing flaw' lately has been cupping at the top, with fantastic results if I keep my wrist flat. Now I know why.

Thanks!