Getting Rotation

[RandomHero1090]

Interesting development in my game that I think others could benefit from….

Like MANY others, when I first made an attempt to get better at golf, my biggest fault I had to overcome was coming over the top (outside-in swing path). After about 2 years, I have really reduced the ratio of over-top-swing. Maybe 1 out of 10 is truly over the top. When I come over the top, I hit a pull. However, when I hit a bad shot coming from the inside, I hit a push or a push slice. Reason….I was swing too much inside-out and not rotating the clubface closed.

My pro showed me this morning that I need to create more of an inside-square-inside path to help generate my rotation. To teach me the path, all the did was lay a cardboard box about ½ an inch in front of the ball parallel to my target line (The Inside Approach works beautifully too). I need to hit the ball, but not the box. After 5 minute I realized a couple key things…..

1) You must come from the inside. You cannot come over the top.
2) You must let the club drop into the “slot.” I achieve this by starting my downswing with a slight rotation of my left hip back WITHOUT putting any effort into my upper body.
3) This is what I was missing….Once you have recreated the “L” at the midpoint, you accelerate down and through the ball, rotating back inside after impact. This rotational move helped close my clubface without excessive hand action.

I have learned, the hard way, that the golf swing is all rotation. Rotation of the hips, torso, shoulders, forearms and hands. Blend this all together from the inside and then whip through the ball with rotational force and I think you are pretty good to go. I think this goes back to my own post about "releasing the club with your left side" that I personally got away from.

If I can further explain or clear things up, let me know. Thoughts are always appreciated!!!

[RandomHero1090]

Re: Getting Rotation

http://www.golfdigest.com/instructio...slotswing.html

The above article is exactly what I am talking about. McLean calls it a "slot swing." Call it whatever.

Look at the "drills" page, page 5. He uses spray paint to illustrate the swing path. The only difference my pro is having me work on is bringing the club back inside after impact.

[shootin4par]

Re: Getting Rotation

random,
an easy way to clear that up is to allow the lead elbow to fold BEFORE it pulls away from your body, this is why hogan did the half swing drill with his elbows glued to his sides
A very effecient way to swing is in the back swing the rear elbow folds while being close to the body and then after it folds it pulls away. This keeps it from flying too much
then on the downswing the front elbow folds close to the body and after done folding pulls away

[RandomHero1090]

Re: Getting Rotation

Good point there Shootin'. If you do that, your hands stay low, and that was something my pro was telling me about. Some people can let the rear elbow fly on the backswing (Couples, Furyk). BUT, on the downswing they drop into the slot and flatten their plane, which brings that elbow back down.

[shootin4par]

Re: Getting Rotation

Good point there Shootin'. If you do that, your hands stay low, and that was something my pro was telling me about. Some people can let the rear elbow fly on the backswing (Couples, Furyk). BUT, on the downswing they drop into the slot and flatten their plane, which brings that elbow back down.

Thanks hero, and as I am sure you know, just because some pros get away with it does not mean we should use it. My objective is to have the least amount of compensations necessary, which will lead to better consistency. Certain moves that are "not ideal" mean that the player better know how to do the fixing move or they wont play good golf. With that elbow flying some people may try to drop in the slot, but that will make them get stuck. So they would need to learn how to reroute back to the slot.

[pnearn]

Re: Getting Rotation

You are describing the classic 2PS move of dropping into the slot .. then coming from the inside

You can also achieve the same thing by having more of a rotational backswing (a 1PS) where you get the club behind and around you more (flatter) and then just swing your hands/arms/shoulders through the ball

Either is good .. whatever works for you

Great to hear yourr on the right path though .. curing that Out to In motion is probably one of the hardest thing to master in the game ...

[RandomHero1090]

Re: Getting Rotation

..You know what’s funny about your post pnearn? I was up early today with my little newborn girl watching “Academy Live” (she will destroy Michelle Wie someday; she’s got a solid shoulder and hip turn for a 1 month old). Mike Scully, the head pro at Medinah (where the PGA is at this weekend), was on talking about how he converted to a 1PS. He went over several key similarities about the 1 & 2 PS.

To me, a 1PS looks much simpler. I think you need to have some serious ab and back strength to make the turns he was making. Mike Scully was a Center for the Kansas City Chiefs for 2 years. Big and Strong guy. But you don’t have to worry about dropping into the slot or “bumping” the left hip. You also do have to have that perfectly blended timing. I am strong enough to pull off the turn. I was trying it at home. But I feel MUCH more comfortable in a more upright position at address.

However, he showed a great drill about people who are 2PS’ers who want to get better, quick. He called it the 1-2-3. Jim McLean has a video on golfdigest.com right now that shows pretty much the same drill for a 2PS’er trying to find the slot.

Take your address – Complete your normal backswing and pause at the top – Make your 1st move down, usually by starting a slight rotation of the left hip – Maintain your wrist angle all the way down until your hands are in front of your right leg and pause (your club should be parallel to your target line) – Once you are in the proper position, finish the swing with a blended move.

[shootin4par]

Re: Getting Rotation

..You know what’s funny about your post pnearn? I was up early today with my little newborn girl watching “Academy Live” (she will destroy Michelle Wie someday; she’s got a solid shoulder and hip turn for a 1 month old). Mike Scully, the head pro at Medinah (where the PGA is at this weekend), was on talking about how he converted to a One Plane Swing. He went over several key similarities about the 1 & 2 PS.

To me, a 1PS looks much simpler. I think you need to have some serious ab and back strength to make the turns he was making. Mike Scully was a Center for the Kansas City Chiefs for 2 years. Big and Strong guy. But you don’t have to worry about dropping into the slot or “bumping” the left hip. You also do have to have that perfectly blended timing. I am strong enough to pull off the turn. I was trying it at home. But I feel MUCH more comfortable in a more upright position at address.

However, he showed a great drill about people who are Two Plane Swing’ers who want to get better, quick. He called it the 1-2-3. Jim McLean has a video on golfdigest.com right now that shows pretty much the same drill for a 2PS’er trying to find the slot.

Take your address – Complete your normal backswing and pause at the top – Make your 1st move down, usually by starting a slight rotation of the left hip – Maintain your wrist angle all the way down until your hands are in front of your right leg and pause (your club should be parallel to your target line) – Once you are in the proper position, finish the swing with a blended move.

I watched that guy and was not impressed, many of the instructors on there have a big NAME but little substance, classic example woudl be butch harmon. Go read his book and you will see it is nothing fancy

[RandomHero1090]

Re: Getting Rotation

I thought he was decent. He hits a pretty good ball. He made some impressive shots around the greens at Medinah.

I like Leadbetter, Haney and McLean. Harmon does nothing for me. I can't remember a Harmon article I have read.

[TeachingPro]

Re: Getting Rotation

I agree with what Mike Skully was saying about the 1-plane swing. Although the 1-plane swing has been around in various forms for a long time, I have never really heard it put in the way Mike did. It's interesting to me how a swing form can develop over time ...

For beginners or people with low levels of ball-skill or co-ordination I think there might be something in a 1-plane swing when explained that way. I have been teaching both forms for a long time but the 1-plane swing, as demonstrated by Mike Skully, has made a big impression on me. I'm going to spend some time watching the show a few times again ...

What about ladies who have "assets" that often get in the way ... teach them the 1-plane swing the way Mike explained it (I'll learn it off by heart) and I bet my last Pound they'd execute a 1-plane swing better than a 2-plane swing.

Although you might need stronger and more flexible muscles for a 1-plane swing, there is far less to worry about and co-ordinate. A trade off that for some people might be worth making.

As for instructors - I like them all. Hell, there is an "unknown" coach down the road who teaches from his converted garage and he's got some really interesting (in a good way!)thoughts and methods.

[RandomHero1090]

Re: Getting Rotation

To me, a "proper" golf swing is about being confortable and having good tempo. I like to stand very. I don't like to bend from the hips as much as others do. I can't have a 1PS because of the way I like to stand at address. Other people like to slouch a bit.

[shootin4par]

Re: Getting Rotation

To me, a "proper" golf swing is about being confortable and having good tempo. I like to stand very. I don't like to bend from the hips as much as others do. I can't have a One Plane Swing because of the way I like to stand at address. Other people like to slouch a bit.

hogan had a "one plane swing" but he stood pretty erect

[pnearn]

Re: Getting Rotation

I think that people think the 1PS is all Hardy. But I think people like Chuck Quinton and Skully have proved you can have variants of it

I stand tall at address, not bent over like Hardy, but I do get the club well behind myself at takeaway. A 2 plane swing coach would say this was an inside move as my hands go over the top of my left foot. But I feel that as long as Im keeping the club face sqaure to my rotation, then I can apply the same rotation coming back and sqaure the clubface. The rotation coming back is led by my core rotating, theres no bump or drop. Im also experimenting with what TGM'ers would call a hands contolled pivot, extensor action (as per the other thread) and a hitting action, such that from the same lower and flatter position at the top I can just hit hard with a rotating right hand and know I wont be coming over the top provided I keep my body (hips and shoulders) quiet at the transition. Pure right hand .. pure power.. like a tennis shot

Ive kinda worked this all out for myself by seeing what worked for me and what didnt .. trying to follow a pure 1PS (a la Hardy or CQ) didnt work for me

[RandomHero1090]

Re: Getting Rotation

Well, you can stand tall and have a 1PS. No reason you can't. But I feel like my hands get caught behind me. I can swing on 1P when I bend forward more at address. Right now, my comfort is with the 2PS.

However, when I posted this originally, my thought was letting others know that swinging TOO MUCH inside-out can become a problem.

After hitting balls 2 days in a row now, I have had much more consistant contact. I am focusing on getting into the slot THEN accelerating like a madman Not vise-versa

I also found that you really have to maintain that loaded wrist and cannot cast. What a power killer that is!