One plane vs. two plane swing?

[golfseeker]

Just changing the topic somewhat. I have been curious about which is better the one plane or the two plane swing. Within the past year I switched to the one plane swing. I was not making any progress (improvement) in my scoring nor in my shot making. I've heard from several instructors recently on "The Golf Channel" and one book in particular Jim Hardy's recent book on "The Plane Truth about Golf" that the trend is towards the one plane golf swing. So shortly after I switched my scores have improved remarkably. In particular, my short game has really improved. I have been a boggie golfer for too many years to count but now I am several strokes below boggie golf. I would like to know if others have had similar outcomes.

[golfonenemesis]

Re: One plane vs. two plane swing?

Jim Hardy and his minions have perpetuated this myth. 1 or 2 plane swing is a myth, it never happens, and, it is just another way teaching pro's get your wallet open.
Play what suits your game and don't listen to these shisters.

[msklar92]

Re: One plane vs. two plane swing?

Putting aside the one or two plane debate, my guess is that whatever adjustment your made led you to being more "on plane"

[golfonenemesis]

Re: One plane vs. two plane swing?

These one and two planers are looking to create problems and take your money. Do you think Hogan, Nicklaus or Palmer ever worried about whether they were one or two planers?
Its a scam, go play golf and forget these shisters. They want your money and will do anything to get it.
The guy last night on the golf channel is also a shister, he is a big dumb dope, a stupid moron who would be selling insurance out of the back of a dry cleaners if he had not played 3 years nfl football and decided on golf instead.
Be very weary of charlitans as there are plenty, kellirosa golf is one, dave pelz is another, leadbetter, is another, countless fakes and you are willing to give them your hard earned money.

[golfseeker]

Re: One plane vs. two plane swing?

You are right about the charlitans. And I am not giving them my money. I was just bringing up the subject because I noticed that a number of Pro's use the "single" plane..i.e. Tiger, Ernie, Vijay, Sergio, Weir, DeMarco, Phil, Funk, etc. The ones that use the "two" plane swing such as Couples, Colin, Fryrk, etc. All are successful but some are more successful recently than others. I just wanted to see if anyone has tested the waters with either of these ideas. I am largely self taught and I've also had a few lesson's. Sure, there are plenty of so-called instructors around ready to take your money. I agree with you on that. But you can sort those out pretty quick. I can't imagine people paying $1200+ a day for lesson's. Even $50 an hour is not worth it. So I spend $20 for a book or watch the golf channel at a monthly rate. I do get something out of it at times. I do like the "Personal Lesson's" segments or the "Profiles of a Pro" segments. Just listening and watching how the Pro's play and their course strategy is very interesting to me. It's probably sour grapes to you.

[pnearn]

Re: One plane vs. two plane swing?

I think if you forget the complexities of planes and angles and geomery there are two extremes

1. A very upright swing in which the club goes straight back along the target line from the ball and is then lifted to the top. It then has to drop down or shallow to an inside position and be released through impact

2. A very flat or rotary swing in which the club goes low and around your body. Analagous to a baseball swing. Here there is no drop, its a pure rotary motion

I think if you go try both extremes, see which one you prefer, then try different grips, setups etc and work hard you will find a method that works for you. Once there stick with it, hone it, experiment with it. Learn how to hit chips and half swings since that verifies and proves your setup, takeaway and release. This is pretty much what I did. Settled more towards no. 2 but am still experimenting and honing

[BrianW]

Re: One plane vs. two plane swing?

I have always used what was the regulation classic two plane swing, it's what I was taught and what I have learned to live with. When I started golf and for a long time after I struggled with a slice caused by an OTT swing, late release of the forearms and probably not understanding the concept of an inside swing path (even though I had taken huge numbers of lessons and range practice sessions).

I have become aware of the one plane swing recently and have experimented with it. I find it is an effective way to swing a club and makes the task of keeping on plane easier, especially with a driver and long irons. I have not committed fully to it yet but have started to use it with my driver, I guess my muscle memory is too ingrained with my normal swing to change without a good degree of conscious effort.

What I would say is that when starting out I think it would have assisted me to improve faster and get a clearer understanding of what i needed to do.

Cheers
Brian

[pnearn]

Re: One plane vs. two plane swing?

Brian

Heres my story... I started with a realisation that my shoulders were supposed to rotate around my spine in a circle. However like most people I came OTT all the time. Firstly I was a slicer

I can prove to myself now exactly what I used to do. If I rotate to the top of my swing and stop I can see that my hips, stmach, and chest have turned and are coiled. If I now attempt to rotate my shoulders/upper body/arms around the spine there is NO WAY I can do this without the right shoulder moving out and away. This is because everything below my shoulders is in the way and not ready for the shoulder turn. I was somebody who started the downswing with their arms and shoulders - slice

Not really knowing what the problem was, but knowing I had to square the clubface, I got quicker hands ..so then I hit pulls! It is said good players often tend to hit pulls! They have good hands. So then you try and stay behind the ball, hold off the release or swing to right field and then you hit blocks and pushes. Its all the same problem manifested in different ways with me (the poor bugger trying to suss it out) trying everything to combat or counteract it

Of course then you go away and figure it out and realise that the reason why this is, is that the lower body must start the downswing if you want the shoulders to stay on plane.

However this now feels strange as forcing your lower body to rotate to the left feels an OTT move. You almost try and force against it. But it has to happen for the golf swing to work as it should with the shallowing of the club.

Personally having tried a lot of different ways I find it is easier to rotate from the ground up when I have a one plane backswing. Even now without a club and hands across my chest I practice a level turn back led by my shoulders and an unwinding down led by feet/legs/hips - feeling that natural intial squat as I start down and leaving the shoulders turned as late as possible. Until players really feel the passive shoulders/arms fling the club around (rather than the arms/hands) they'll struggle along as I used to (and still occasionally do!)

In this respect I dont think theres that mucg difference between 2 planes and 1 plane only I find it easier to lead lower body rotation from a flatter top of swing position

[Mr_Change]

Re: One plane vs. two plane swing?

I use both of these swing planes myself. I have spent hours upon hours learning both of these swing planes, firstly I used the 2 plane swing, but I could never hit my long irons straight, I always hit over the top and sliced them, the longer the club the higher it would go and the bigger the slice. I was getting good with my 8 iron to sw using the 2 plane swing. I later learnt about a 1 plane swing. I started to hit my long irons really good with a slight draw aswell as my driver, but as I got into my short irons I was getting really big hooks.

Now I use a 2 plane swing with all my short irons and a 1 plane swing for all my mid to longer irons and woods.

[pnearn]

Re: One plane vs. two plane swing?

I personally found it a misconception that the 1PS as preached by Hardy stated you didnt need lower body rotation. You could just rotate your shoulders from the top

That move ALWAYS leads to an OTT. All the supposed tour 1PS'ers like Vijay, Jacobsen and even Hogan transitioned by rotating their core (hips/stomach). Its the feeling of trying to hit the ball left with your hips, getting the belt buckle/belly button facing the target at impact thats key in both swings I think. Difference is there is less shallowing at transition as you can see in that Mclean article in GD

[FGL0153]

Re: One plane vs. two plane swing?

Here's what I'm curious about. I believe this is effective. I feel a more powerful tee shot and noticable distance. I however return to more of a slot swing for trajectory changes and finessse shots. I'm wondering what teaching pros think of that. For instance..Picking the club up more abruptly in the rough or flop shots.

Thanks!

[fanofsaosin]

Re: One plane vs. two plane swing?

i have made the switch from two plane to one plane. I had a terrible tendency with trying to hit the golf ball and had an ugly OTT. With the one plane swing i find it easier to just turn my back toward the target and tryin to hold that position as long as i can. It has added power back to my game and i have less thoughts flying threw my head. Also i have been watching Vijay alot, i have used his right leg kicked in as a trigger for my backswing and keeps me in tempo instead of swinging for the fences.

[golfseeker]

Re: One plane vs. two plane swing?

Here is something to think about. If you look at the down-swing and the impact position of the Pro's regardless of whether or not they use a one or two plane system; they all come into the hitting zone the same, from the inside. I think the one plane swing is just a flat version of the more up-right two plane swing. Both the one plane and the two plane swings have to drop into the slot (i.e. the right elbow into the hip) on the down-swing. This effectively changes to another plane. Thus both are two plane systems...but the so-called single plane is flat compared to the two plane method that in itself makes it easier to get into the slot from the inside. Thus making it more difficult to come over-the-top, IMHO. To determine if you are a one plane golfer you take your normal address position to the ball. Take your typical back-swing and then let the club drop to touch your shoulder. If it hits the point of your shoulder it is on a single plane. If it hits between your head and shoulder it is steep (two plane swinger). If it hits below the shoulder your swing plane is too flat.
Regardless of which path you take...keep it in the short grass.

[Mr_Change]

Re: One plane vs. two plane swing?

Take your typical back-swing and then let the club drop to touch your shoulder. If it hits the point of your shoulder it is on a single plane. If it hits between your head and shoulder it is steep (two plane swinger). If it hits below the shoulder your swing plane is too flat.

What happens if your overswing or underswing? what if you don't swing on plane at all?

[golfseeker]

Re: One plane vs. two plane swing?

What happens if your overswing or underswing? what if you don't swing on plane at all?

I guess you will have to take some lessons from a pro. It would seem to me that the golf swing has to describe a plane or two no matter how you take the club back and through. If you try to manipulate the swing with your hands and arms I guess you could alter the swing enough so that it would not be on a plane but on a curve. But why would you do that? The golf swing is hard enough so why complicate it further? If you take a weight at the end of a string and twirl it around it will be describing a plane perpendicular to your arm and hand. If you try to alter the spinning weight (like throwing it forward) the described plane will fall apart. The golf swing is not exactly like the twirling weight because you can change directions easily from the back swing to the down swing. If you try to alter the swing plane it will fall apart.