Toe of the club when shaft parallel to the ground

[msklar92]

On a recent thread, G Willis mentioned that the angle of the club face should parallel the angle of the spine tilt when the club shaft is parallel to the ground. My questions are

1) If the toe is straight up does this mean there was too much hand rotation or fanning on the inital part of the back swing and

2) Will the angle of the club face vary with the spine tilt at address? So if there is more spine tilt will club face appear more closed but actually be square to the player??

3) The toe up to toe up drill then does not necessarily mean the toe goes perpendicular to the ground up??

[GregJWillis]

Re: Toe of the club when shaft parallel to the ground

If you use only your shoulder rotation to take the club to parallel, then there should not be any need to roll the arms or hands independent of the connection between the shoulder-torso triangle at setup, and the face will, at parallel, be along your spine angle,

If you have very little/lots of spine tilt, the face should be along that angle.

I use the toe-up drill to be at the spine angle. What this drill tries to acomplish is the feeling of body rotation and the relationship of the club face to that angle, and not arm rolling, hand rolling manipulation to square the face.

I can guarentee that the pro teaching this drill can easily intrerpet the drill any way they want to talk about what suits their style, so it does not mean that this is the only right answer.

[golfonenemesis]

Re: Toe of the club when shaft parallel to the ground

Not sure if I invented the toe up drill but I have certainly used it for over 25 years. Toe up does not mean rotating your arms to make it happen, it means rotating your upper body, club/arms triangle properly to achieve a toe up position.
Now I have seen some pro's manipulate the toe up by rotating arms/hands but its not a good thing to do.
Some will have toe laying off, some closed etc. but there should be no handsy manipulation. I noticed Fuzzy does alot of handsy stuff but would not recommend it.

[Rackster]

Re: Toe of the club when shaft parallel to the ground

If you use only your shoulder rotation to take the club to parallel, then there should not be any need to roll the arms or hands independent of the connection between the shoulder-torso triangle at setup, and the face will, at parallel, be along your spine angle,

If you have very little/lots of spine tilt, the face should be along that angle.

I use the toe-up drill to be at the spine angle. What this drill tries to acomplish is the feeling of body rotation and the relationship of the club face to that angle, and not arm rolling, hand rolling manipulation to square the face.

I can guarentee that the pro teaching this drill can easily intrerpet the drill any way they want to talk about what suits their style, so it does not mean that this is the only right answer.

Can we have a description of the toe up drill? Is it just swinging the club to waist height on the backswing and follow through?

[msklar92]

Re: Toe of the club when shaft parallel to the ground

so if you have been rolling the hands to get the toe up, the face might feel more closed if you do this without hand manipulation. Your palm might also feel more like it is facing the ground.

I don't mean to keep harping on this point, but I can see that problems with this initial part of the swing can lead to other swing faults. For example, if the hands roll from the start, then you need to make more manipulations on the downswing to square the face, causing pushes and hooks depending on the timing of your hands that day.

[msklar92]

Re: Toe of the club when shaft parallel to the ground

yes, that is the toe up to toe up drill.

[golfonenemesis]

Re: Toe of the club when shaft parallel to the ground

Do not manipulate the hands/wrists to get the toe up, this is bad and while you will produce some very powerful shots, you cannot repeat those on a regular basis.
Shoulder/triangle rotation produces toe up not wrist/hand manipulation. Take a wedge and do it half swings, then take 7 iron, then 4 iron, then driver or 3 wood. its all the same but no cheating---no hand/wrist manipulation, its all about shoulder/triangle rotation.
If you need grip help, let me know as the grip is important to making this happen.
Good luck