COAM and the role of hands

[lgskywalker37]

COAM (conservation of angular momentum) if an ice skater was to try and spin as fast as they can with there arms extended as far as they can their hand migh be moving at 30 mph (just a winld guess) but if they were to keep as tight as posible and then extend there arms last minute there hands would be moving much faster maybe 50 mph?? you want to keep the weight (being the club) as "tight" as posiblle that is done by cocking the wrist and right before imacpt uncocking that wrist is like the iceskater extending the arms last minute.

keeping the right hand cupped in itself deosn't really add power to the swing, all it does is make you swing farther before hitting the ball therfore using your body to develope more power. instead of (if full backswing was 0 deg) returning to impact by only turning 70-90 deg and uncupping wrist so that the club reaches impact, you unwind even further to 90-115 deg by having the club face lag behind you hands.

am I correct in any of that?

[shootin4par]

Re: COAM and the role of hands

keeping the right hand cupped in itself deosn't really add power to the swing,

your above statement is false, but is a good start for a conversation
Hold your hand and have it not be cupped nor uncupped, and keep it relaxed. now with your left hand bend your right hand backwards, it should bend back pretty easy. Now cup your right wrist back and from there try and bend it backwards with the left hand, should be harder to bend back. By having a cupped right wrist at impact you can now put the force of the right side of your body behind the ball, the right side will be pushing through the shot. The flat left wrist at impact uses the force of the left side pulling through impact. Improper hand allignments at impact will disonect the hands from the rest of the body, because if the front wrist is not flat and the rear wrist is not cupped, then the hands have no brace so the distance the ball will travel will be based upon hand speed and weight, where as proper impact conditions will make the ball go farther because it used hand, arms, and body speed and weight.
good luck in the search

[lgskywalker37]

Re: COAM and the role of hands

good example, never thought about it like that...... i felt the body being used when i cupped my right wrist but i never thought it was because of what you said. thank you for correcting me

but is my first remark about COAM correct?

[shootin4par]

Re: COAM and the role of hands

good example, never thought about it like that...... i felt the body being used when i cupped my right wrist but i never thought it was because of what you said. thank you for correcting me

but is my first remark about COAM correct?

I will let you answer that quesiton by yourself, but I will give you a thought
take your right arm and keep it straight, no elbow bend, keep it as far away from the shoulder as possible, and imagine cracking a whip

[lgskywalker37]

Re: COAM and the role of hands

sorry not following....

my first comment about COAM is all about the left wrist

[shootin4par]

Re: COAM and the role of hands

sorry not following....

my first comment about COAM is all about the left wrist

when cracking a whip, casting a fishing pole, hitting a baseball, etc........ you keep your arms in close and let the spinning force WHIP them out. If they where kept out far (straight arms in the example about the whip) they would be moving at a constant rate, the rate of the body. but if they are kept in close then allowed to whip out, like the ice skater, they would move at the rate of the body, PLUS the rate at which they catch up to the body because thay are trailing behind.

[lgskywalker37]

Re: COAM and the role of hands

that is what i was saying, so you do agree with my first comment then...

[shootin4par]

Re: COAM and the role of hands

cmon buddy, I put the answer in there for you reread the whole thing, you will figure it out. Time for me to go to bed,

[BrianW]

Re: COAM and the role of hands

I still get confused by this cupping of the right wrist at impact. If we take the analogy of cracking a whip, the right wrist would rotate forward of centre in the last movement to generate speed, all cupping would be removed.

I still maintain the best way to create power and accuracy through impact is to remove the large angle in the right wrist as late as possible and the best way to do this is by using the "Puck" method (Like an ice hockey player uses his wrists to hit the puck) The right hand and wrist rotates under the left in the direction of the target so there is in fact forward cupping of the right wrist as it passes impact. Imagine tying a piece of string halfway up your right forearm and tightly onto the club around 6 inches above the grip at address. when you hit through impact imagine the right hand works under the left and stretches then snaps the string.

Hopefully I am misunderstanding this right hand drill as I seem to be the only one that cannot see the benefit?

[profdan]

Re: COAM and the role of hands

I still get confused by this cupping of the right wrist at impact. If we take the analogy of cracking a whip, the right wrist would rotate forward of centre in the last movement to generate speed, all cupping would be removed.

I agree with you, Brian. I finally discovered that the cupped right wrist and cocked left wrist should be maintained past the impact point.

When our hands go past the impact point, we then uncock the left wrist and unbend the right wrist simultaneously. My understanding is that this coordinated action results in COAM - assuming we've rotated our hips and shoulders properly.

I'd appreciate hearing other theories, though.

[shootin4par]

Re: COAM and the role of hands

I agree with you, Brian. I finally discovered that the cupped right wrist and cocked left wrist should be maintained past the impact point.

When our hands go past the impact point, we then uncock the left wrist and unbend the right wrist simultaneously. My understanding is that this coordinated action results in COAM - assuming we've rotated our hips and shoulders properly.

I'd appreciate hearing other theories, though.

if you maintained the wrist cock and wrist cup at impact point you would go over top of the ball. In a sound golf swing the wrists uncock and then uncup. Not a theory, a law, the golf swing does have laws. Not saying that there is only one right way to swing a golf club, but saying that in a doog golf swing they all have some characteristics that are the same.

[shootin4par]

Re: COAM and the role of hands

I still get confused by this cupping of the right wrist at impact. If we take the analogy of cracking a whip, the right wrist would rotate forward of centre in the last movement to generate speed, all cupping would be removed.

and this happens in the golf swing as well, but it is after impact. by maintaining these angles you can accelerate through the ball. if you cracked the whip at the ball you would have decelerated by the time the ball left the club.

[BrianW]

Re: COAM and the role of hands

if you maintained the wrist cock and wrist cup at impact point you would go over top of the ball. In a sound golf swing the wrists uncock and then uncup. Not a theory, a law, the golf swing does have laws. Not saying that there is only one right way to swing a golf club, but saying that in a doog golf swing they all have some characteristics that are the same.

OK Shootin, we agree here. Did you read my post in this thread relating to the way I release the wrist cock using the "Puck" method to create additional head speed and maintain good direction of the club face? I just cant relate this to what is described as the RH method that seems to promote some kind of cupping retention in the right wrist.

[Started2k3]

Re: COAM and the role of hands

COAM (conservation of angular momentum) if an ice skater was to try and spin as fast as they can with there arms extended as far as they can their hand migh be moving at 30 mph (just a winld guess) but if they were to keep as tight as posible and then extend there arms last minute there hands would be moving much faster maybe 50 mph?? you want to keep the weight (being the club) as "tight" as posiblle that is done by cocking the wrist and right before imacpt uncocking that wrist is like the iceskater extending the arms last minute.

COAM states that the momentum must be conserved so long as no other force is present. So if the ice skater spun at 30mph with the arms extended and 50mph with the arms tucked in, then if the skater extends the arms again they will slow back down to 30mph. Note the ice skater must only be able to apply a fixed amount of force to initiating the spin for this to be true.

This is not my area of expertise but if you want I can go on and on about it if you like.

[shootin4par]

Re: COAM and the role of hands

COAM states that the momentum must be conserved so long as no other force is present. So if the ice skater spun at 30mph with the arms extended and 50mph with the arms tucked in, then if the skater extends the arms again they will slow back down to 30mph. Note the ice skater must only be able to apply a fixed amount of force to initiating the spin for this to be true.

This is not my area of expertise but if you want I can go on and on about it if you like.

yes, but wouldnt the intial thrusting of the arms going out create greater hand speed, and then from there it would slow back down