Casting/Over-aggressive shoulders

[mr3856a]

Just thought I'd post this experience I've had the last few days - maybe it will help a fellow golfer.

I've been hitting solid shots the last month or so, but the last few times out I've notice that though my shots are going at the target, they lacked some "pop" and were starting to fade a bit. My divots were pointing 20 degrees or more left of target.

I noticed that my right shoulder (I'm a righty) was coming out on my downswing, causing the club to come outside the line and cut accross. I've probably been doing this for a bit now but haven't noticed. When I squared up the face to the swing path, I'd yank it left.

Anyway, I went out today with the goal of trying to keep my right shoulder from coming out on the downswing (in other words, not letting it move toward the target line/ball) and the results were very encouraging. Hit some nice, high draws, a few pushes, but that doesn't bother me (swing path is still coming from the inside). My divots were straight at my target.

And this was only the first day, so I'm looking forward to seeing how the results are going to look.

[tenaciousdee]

Re: Casting/Over-aggressive shoulders

Mike,

When you looked at your divots was the toe digging into the right side of the divot? with a longer heel "drag" that produced the slice?

I'm curious because I think that I am doing the same thing. Although I don't think I have a cast I was practicing today with my 8 iron and found that I possibly was casting and moving my right shoulder down in an effort to add that extra umph.

Thanks

Tenacious Dee

[RandomHero1090]

Re: Casting/Over-aggressive shoulders

The two things that helped me get inside.

1) Wider backswing. I am a 2 planer.
2) Making sure my hands drop down 1st, rather than move towards the target line 1st. A left hip move as the 1st move down works best for me.

What else works...

When thinking about the shoulder, the right shoulder should "work" under your chin, not across it. Think of a stone-skipping motion (hips clear, shoulders stay parallel to the target line).

What still destroys me? TEMPO!!!!!!!!!!

[vp27519]

Re: Casting/Over-aggressive shoulders

Mike,

Thanks for sharing. This is something I'm working hard on. What I do though is try and drop my right shoulder/elbow down at the ball rather than turning it to the target.

Be interested to see if you played any softball or baseball in your day? I did play quite a bit of softball. Coach seems to think that this is the cause of my problem.

Nicole

[johnq]

Re: Casting/Over-aggressive shoulders

Try making your divot - left of target to start and slightly right of target at the finish. This should create a slight draw being an inside-inside swing plane. I like to start my down swing with my hands, dragging the butt end down to the ball creating the inside movement and keeping my shoulders passive so as to not pull the right shoulder down which can lead to chunking the shot.
JQ

[tigress]

Re: Casting/Over-aggressive shoulders

What has helped me recently is to start down with the left arm before releasing the shoulders.

Tigress

[vp27519]

Re: Casting/Over-aggressive shoulders

Another good key Tigress. There are so many. It's just a matter of finding one that works for the individual.

[PensacolaWahoo]

Re: Casting/Over-aggressive shoulders

I've been doing the exact same thing. I felt like Jim Furyk looks today while trying to fix it. I have an ugly move at the top to get on an inside-out plane. As bad as if felt, my ball striking was much better today. My only tendency now is to hit a little behind the ball more often. But that's just getting my weight in the wrong place and dropping down to the ball too much. I think it's going to work out nicely. I won't care how it looks if I can be consistent with it.

[vp27519]

Re: Casting/Over-aggressive shoulders

Once I stopped worrying about how my swing looked, I started playing better. It's not how but how many.

[BrianW]

Re: Casting/Over-aggressive shoulders

A little tip I think I first heard from Jack Nicklaus:

At the top imagine your left shoulder is held against a wall so you cant move it back (OK it will have to move some but just imagine it cant at the start of the downswing) this will encourage you to drop your arms and bring your right shoulder down and under your chin with the club coming through on the inside.

[GoNavy]

Re: Casting/Over-aggressive shoulders

Well here is some food for thought. Almost without except, I see over the top action because, people turn their hips too much on the backswing, this puts the shoulders in charge of the swing, makes it very difficult to start the downswing with the lower body. Done correctly the downswing will be a reflex because of the tension between lower and upper body, any little movement of the lower body (hips) will pull the shoulders down. When NO tension is created the hips and shoulders will work independently of each other, and the shoulders will usually always win that battle, and go out and over. The hips should have the feeling of remaining square to the ball, they won't, they will turn, but that resistances will keep the tension between hips and shoulders, then all that is required is a little bump of the hips to get things rolling.

[rharris06]

Re: Casting/Over-aggressive shoulders

My coach gives a very simple yet effective tip for people who come over the top, all he ses to do is this. Concenrate on hitting the INSIDE QUARTER OF THE GOLF BALL this works everytime I reckon.

[Simon Woo]

Re: Casting/Over-aggressive shoulders

Good point Navy. In fact I posted the same comments quite a while ago here. I had to work on feeling as if I was not rotating the hips at all, but the video shows that this particular feeling means that I have rotated my hips just right 45 degrees back. Anything I don't get this feeling it means that I have allowed my hips to rotate back way too much - they don't rotate back because of any pulling action from the upper body but it becomes more of an unconscious to rotate automatically (and I think that really kills the coil).

[pnearn]

Re: Casting/Over-aggressive shoulders

Well here is some food for thought. Almost without except, I see over the top action because, people turn their hips too much on the backswing, this puts the shoulders in charge of the swing, makes it very difficult to start the downswing with the lower body. Done correctly the downswing will be a reflex because of the tension between lower and upper body, any little movement of the lower body (hips) will pull the shoulders down. When NO tension is created the hips and shoulders will work independently of each other, and the shoulders will usually always win that battle, and go out and over. The hips should have the feeling of remaining square to the ball, they won't, they will turn, but that resistances will keep the tension between hips and shoulders, then all that is required is a little bump of the hips to get things rolling.

Its interesting because I see the same problem but I think its caused by something different. To me the hips are part of your core and should turn, you shouldnt try and actively restrict them. If you set up right (with the hips locked at the right downward angle and kicked to the left a little) they wont move away first anyway

What I see as the issue is the fake shoulder turn where the player just yanks it away with his hands/arms and his hips and shoulders either dont move at all, or move way too much, theres a sway to the trail side as those arms yabk evertyhing sideways but not rotationally and nothing is synchronised. Then when you start down with anything (hips, arms or shoulders) they're all out of whack and youre gonna have to use your hands or great timing to save it

I find if I get setup well and make a connected turn, where the sternum leads and moves the arms, pulls the shoulders and hips etc you get that lead shoulder behind the ball, have good width and can just unwind everything together and make solid contact. The old cross your arms across your chest (hands on shoulders) drill where you feel a turn led by the sternum/belly button lets you feel the shoulders pull the hips and no sway. If you now let the arms hang naturally, take all the tension out of them and the do exactly the same thing (led again by the sternum/belly button) they will get moved up right on plane and in synch with the turn. If you really want to restrict the hips make setup changes but I wouldnt try and actively hold them in place since that way they'll get out of sequence again

What a lot of people do is throw or try and place their hands somewhere which leads to a sway and a disconnected arms and body unit. If people learned little connected half swings with their feet together, got those arms out of it, learnt to turn right, and saw how far they could hit the ball they'd know that was the way to play. Loads of little things to learn though like making sure the left arm stays fairly straight as you turn it with your core, making sure your forearms dont rotate until very late, ensuring your hips turn and dont move laterally. All these feel totally, totally un-natrural to the guy whos been swinging back with hands and arms and yanking it inside or outside, lifting, swaying etc etc

Its Effortless and easy but learning passive hands/arms is the holy grail for high handicappers. And its so counter intuitive to what you want to do that it takes a lot of time, patience and practice