Hitting (angled hinge?) vs Swinging

[pnearn]

Been messing about again lately with my swing and started to feel like every shot I was hitting was a 'punch' where I felt like I was driving my right hand down into the back of the ball, almost like trying to take as big a divot as I could just in front of the ball. Follow through is abbreviated but I can really feel and hear the compression. No 'swing through the ball' here, this was a definite 'hit'

I *think* TGM calls this angled hinge? But basically I am now hitting all my irons using this punch technique and getting some real compression on the ball, lower ball flight and abbreviated follow through. Hitting 7i 160-165 last night doing this (usual carry is 155-160). Seems I have to make less compensations in this swing to avoid the dreaded pull hooks as I was with the full swing with more of forearm rotation through impact. Miss with this is more a fade than a pull which I would rather have, and it was very easy to hit gentle fades into holes simply by opening the clubface a little at address and trying to hold that angle as I mashed the club into the back of the ball

Problem is can you make this pattern work for the driver where you need to swing up? I couldnt ?

[pnearn]

Re: Hitting (angled hinge?) vs Swinging

To supplement heres what I am feeling as the difference - done with little half swings

1. Swing. Take the club, let the clubface naturally rotate back, then rotate it on the way through, door opening and closing analogy

2. Hit. Take the club back but the keep the face looking at the ball (closed). Now use the right hand and forearm to bang that square club face straight into the back of the ball. Dont allow the club to rotate through impact. I think this is one of Moe Normans principles?

Anyhoos, messing about lately Im finding I hit the ball way better with little or no forearm rotation and much more of a hitting action down onto the ball

[Simon Woo]

Re: Hitting (angled hinge?) vs Swinging

Hi pnearn, do u try to keep the club facing the target line for much longer in this case?

[msklar92]

Re: Hitting (angled hinge?) vs Swinging

this is exactly what I was describing in my post, lead with the left and punch with the right. I also do this for a driver, obviously without the divot. Actually, I think this is the feel Leadbetter is trying to ingrain with the swing setter. I tell you though, I did hit some great approach shots this way and out of the bunker - wow. I hit a hybrid from about 200 yds in a bunker onto the green. Your right, it does seem incredibly consistent.

[pnearn]

Re: Hitting (angled hinge?) vs Swinging

Hi pnearn, do u try to keep the club facing the target line for much longer in this case?

I wouldnt say excessively so Simon, but certainly no active forearm roll on the takeaway. If you push back with the palm of your left hand feeling like the right palm stays facing the ball as long as possible then you can drive that right hand down without having to 'turn it over'. I think Shooting has a takeaway like this but im sure he will correct me

What I dont want to in this pattern is swing my right hand around a central point. I want to thrust it in a straight line with the ball position quite forward aiming to take some serious turf about an inch in front of the ball. Right arm will straighten at impact to provide this thrust (much as we spoke of in the discussion thread we had going)

I could never get the big chunks of earth the pros' seem to but with this method youre digging holes in the ground and the ball is flyin!

[Simon Woo]

Re: Hitting (angled hinge?) vs Swinging

Yep that's one big mistake I just realised in my golf swing. I was rotating the arms so much and so quickly on my takeaway (fanning open I think you call it?), and I was asking in another thread how of my left hand knuckles should I see halfway through the backswing? I realised almost immediately upon takeaway, I would be able to see the whole back of my left palm (ie. all knuckles)!

Well aActually, I was asking you about the clubhead facing the target line for as long as possible upon impact. Knowing that you have a flat one-plane swing, I was wondering if your club actually goes round pretty quickly upon impact, and if you are making some major changes to your swing with what you described now?

[pnearn]

Re: Hitting (angled hinge?) vs Swinging

this is exactly what I was describing in my post, lead with the left and punch with the right. I also do this for a driver, obviously without the divot. Actually, I think this is the feel Leadbetter is trying to ingrain with the swing setter. I tell you though, I did hit some great approach shots this way and out of the bunker - wow. I hit a hybrid from about 200 yds in a bunker onto the green. Your right, it does seem incredibly consistent.

Michael, how do you set up for the hitting stroke? Ive found that if I set up with a flat left wrist/bent right and hands slightly forward, then I can hold those angles as I push the club back and feel as if im in the perfect position to hammer down into the ball with the palm of right hand from about 3/4 back

I also find the backswing to be way shorter .. no need to go to parallel as theres no forearm rotation (horizontal hinging). In fact I get to a point beyond which its impossible to hit from without having to turn that right hand over

[pnearn]

Re: Hitting (angled hinge?) vs Swinging

Knowing that you have a flat one-plane swing, I was wondering if your club actually goes round pretty quickly upon impact, and if you are making some major changes to your swing with what you described now?

I would say yes, I almost certainly am. I'm slowly moving away from a very rotational flat 1PS type swing to a more upright less rotational 'hitting' swing as described above. Right now im in that middle ground where you work on stuff and old habits are hard to break

I've been lucky enough to be working through some of these things with occasional visits to the range with a guy whos really into TGM. I've kinda stopped playing for a while anyway as I want to give myself stuff to work on over the winter and know what that is. The feeling I have right now is there is far less going on in this type of 'hit' motion, far less timimg is required, which is giving me more control and accuracy

Personally- Ive come to the conclusion that forearm and hand rotation are my enemies and I want to simplify the whole motion as much as I can

I was wondering if your club actually goes round pretty quickly upon impact,

To be honest Simon, I dont really worry about post impact. I drive my right hand at the ball, and as long as it hits square then what happens afterwards Im not worried about. I know my follow through is much shorter than it was with the rotational swing

[pnearn]

Re: Hitting (angled hinge?) vs Swinging

Yep that's one big mistake I just realised in my golf swing. I was rotating the arms so much and so quickly on my takeaway (fanning open I think you call it?)

Simon, have you ever played about with a right forearm takeaway and hit motion? Maybe something to try? Let me know if youre interested and i'll try and describe what I am now doing with the right forearm to get into that position to hit down on the ball

[BrianW]

Re: Hitting (angled hinge?) vs Swinging

Paul,

Try my "Puck Release" It will keep the clubface in line longer and allow you to hit through as hard as you like. It's worth a try!

[pnearn]

Re: Hitting (angled hinge?) vs Swinging

Paul,

Try my "Puck Release" It will keep the clubface in line longer and allow you to hit through as hard as you like. It's worth a try!

Sounds interesting Brian, tell me more

[BrianW]

Re: Hitting (angled hinge?) vs Swinging

Sounds interesting Brian, tell me more

Paul,

Have a look at this recent discussion thread I started and posting #10,

Happy to discuss further.

http://www.golf-tuition-online.com/g...gh-impact.html

[rharris06]

Re: Hitting (angled hinge?) vs Swinging

Pnearn, ever thought of useing Brian manzellas forum? They all speak about this kind of stuff because Brian teaches the TGM kind of teaching.

www.brianmanzella.com

[msklar92]

Re: Hitting (angled hinge?) vs Swinging

Paul,
Set up sounds about the same. On the backswing I feel a constant connection between the upper arm and left shoulder and maintain that throughout the downswing. I lead with this connection on the through swing and then extend the right arm down through the ball. It almost feels as if I am going to hit the ball fat at times - like I am extending down behind the ball. My head tries to stay behind the ball maintaing the spine angle. I might turn my head ad look at the ball from a side angle, but try and avoid lateral movement of the head on the through swing. The momentum of hitting down and through cariies me to the follow through. The 2 problems I run into sometimes are 1) being a little to anxious with the right hand and hitting fat or 2) depending on the lie, the club can sometimes slide under the ball. Mike.

[pnearn]

Re: Hitting (angled hinge?) vs Swinging

Pnearn, ever thought of useing Brian manzellas forum? They all speak about this kind of stuff because Brian teaches the TGM kind of teaching.

www.brianmanzella.com

Ricky, I dip in out of that site sometimes and read the archives but all that golfing machine stuffs a bit technical for me and to be honest I delibrately dont want to get into it .. BUT I do like the principles in ENGLISH and as i say im lucky to have a TGM convert giving me some advice without resorting to talking about accumulators or 10-1-x or whatever

That said I do like the swinging and hitting theory though and think im clearly making a move from a swinger to a hitter...righltly or wrongly