Hip Turn in Back Swing - Resist or Not??

[Macca_NZ]

Hi

Like many new golfers trying to improve on an inconsistent swing I have read all the advice in books etc that I can get my hands on and one of the problems I fear is taking a written piece of advice to far.

Restricting hip turn during the back swing is one of the areas I really would like some feedback on.

I find I am never sure how much my hips should turn in the back swing. I know the power gets created by having the hips turn less than shoulders. But I also notice that the pros swings don't seem to have an absence of hip turn in their swings.


I actually sometimes feel that if i don't resist the hips turning on the backswing that this gets them "in action" (for want of a better word) and seems to get them leading the down swing more which is obvously important. (Once again from what I have read)


I am able to get a full shoulder turn without much hip turn at all so maybe I am taking the resist the hips turning thing to far and thats why i feel more in sync when I let my hips go in the back swing.


Very interested in any thoughts you all have on the hips in the backswing.


Cheers

[peter3]

Re: Hip Turn in Back Swing - Resist or Not??

Let your hip turn naturally and don't worry about it. As long as you (try to) hold your back leg "stiff" (i,e don't let it move) in the back swing, you can never turn your hips too much (unless you're the snake man ).

--
Regards, Peter

[shootin4par]

Re: Hip Turn in Back Swing - Resist or Not??

If by resisting the hip pivot in the backswing your hips dont turn on the spine angle set at address, then work on pivoting with them in your backswing. If your hips pivot around on the fixed axis they were at address, then keep doing it how you were doing it. Take a shaft and stick it in the ground outside of your rear foot. Put it on the same angle as your rear leg so it goes up your leg but the angle is always two inches away from your rear leg. Make your backswing, can you do it without touching the shaft?

further explanation on the shaft thing. at address your rear leg does not go straight up and down but rather 10 degrees or so leaning towards the target. so the shaft should lean towards the target as well the whole time two inches away from your leg. Now the knee may be kicked in a little, so just make sure it is around two inches away from your ankle and two inches away from your thigh. Practice this first without balls

besides set up NOTHING is more important than pivot, and since the backswing pivot is before the downswing pivot, the backswing is MORE IMPORTANT then the downswing

[lgskywalker37]

Re: Hip Turn in Back Swing - Resist or Not??

since the backswing pivot is before the downswing pivot, the backswing is MORE IMPORTANT then the downswing

i gotta disagree with you there S4P, it doesn't matter how good your BS is if your DS is bad then you won't hit any good.

don't even worry about the hips, they are passive..... just turn your shoulders to get them about 90 deg, if you can make it (keeping spine anlge) w/o hip turn, ok if not then turn them, if you can't make the full turn then pick the front foot off the ground like old school. i would say if you have over flexability instead of restricting hip turn purposly, i would flare the front foot to restrict your hip turn untill your shoulders make the full 90 deg.

[shootin4par]

Re: Hip Turn in Back Swing - Resist or Not??

i gotta disagree with you there S4P, it doesn't matter how good your BS is if your DS is bad then you won't hit any good.

don't even worry about the hips, they are passive..... just turn your shoulders to get them about 90 deg, if you can make it (keeping spine anlge) w/o hip turn, ok if not then turn them, if you can't make the full turn then pick the front foot off the ground like old school. i would say if you have over flexability instead of restricting hip turn purposly, i would flare the front foot to restrict your hip turn untill your shoulders make the full 90 deg.

skywalker, I can accept that you disgree with me. I ask you one thing though, can you show me a or direct me to a picture of a good tour player with a bad backswing pivot who looses their tush line in the back swing? I would have to say 2-3 tour pros out of 100 might do this.

You see golfers, myself included, think there are many different ways to swing a golf club. but the thing is, we are decieved. take tiger woods and john daly, how different woudl you say they swing? now if you cut their arms off and just watched their body movements they would look much more similar to you. the biggest diffference then would be that daly pivots more and that is why he lifts his left foot, but if he stopped his pivot where tiger does then they would look really similar.

SO why do their swings look so much different? because the most noticable aspect of the golf swing is the ARMS. The arms and hands move aroudn more then the head, shoulders, hips or legs. So when we see swings what really is the biggest difference between tiger and daly or from fyrk and monty. is the arm/hand path. That isi the easiest thing we see so that is what we judge it by.

Now as far as body movemnts why do some pros loook different? mainly because their set up. Fyrk, monty, set up very upright, jacobson, johny miller set up more bent over. the angles they set at address will dictate how their body LOOKS in backsiwng. But the common thing those four will have is that the angles they set at address witll be maintained in the backswing pretty well. They will all rotate around their spine pretty well and keep their tush line, there shoulder angle, their secondary axis tilt. the other difference will relate to flexibility so some may turn the shoulders much more then the hips because their flexibility

Golf swings are much more similar across the board when you stop looking at the arms and focus on the body movements. It is really the route of the arms that gives the ILLUSION that there are a million and one different swings, well that is my take on it anyways

thank your for disagreeing skywalker, because it opens the floor for discussion and that is where we can all learn. The downswing gets all the glory but the set up and backswing did most all the work

[bill reed]

Re: Hip Turn in Back Swing - Resist or Not??

hi shootin
i tend to agree with you in what you say, when you look at the top plays there spine angle is the same from start to finnish and its the the bigest diffrence from the rest of us handicap player the tend to move about a bit,
its why monty looks so smooth and slow with a driver, like you said he stands tall and swings around and has one of the best finnishs in golf, he always swing to finnish even on a 50% swing.
if you control your right knee and dont lock it but keep it flexed on the backswing the hip turn take care of themself. you cant over turn your hips if your knees still felxed but you can if your right leg locks on the backswing.
bill

[lgskywalker37]

Re: Hip Turn in Back Swing - Resist or Not??

S4P, i agree pros have the same body movement, but (from my standpoint) when i first learned to golf it was by watchnig that and trying to emulate their bodies/hips legs.....

everyone is different, but for me, i had to learn to swing with my arms in the DS..... the turn, weightshift, body all came second. as the reason we move everythng but the arms is to accomodate the correct path of the arms, but all the (direct) power comes from the right arm in the DS. i agree with you that a BS is important (but for a full swing) i think the arms are 75% of the swing and the body is 15% therfore a good BS isn't that important.

if you have the most perfect on plane BS, but if yon don't know how to DS you are screwed..... but most people that have a good DS, have a good BS, but not all that have a good BS have a good DS.

it sounds to me like you are talking about fundamentals (spine angle, tush line) which are always important.

[shootin4par]

Re: Hip Turn in Back Swing - Resist or Not??

maybe if you had a good instructor, which is pretty hard to find, then you would have been able to learn more of a body swing instead of an arm swing. Golf is so hard becaue a lot teachers dont really understand the swing, and some of the ones who do cannot communicate it very well, but there are those who understand it and communicate it well, but that is not easy to find.

[lgskywalker37]

Re: Hip Turn in Back Swing - Resist or Not??

maybe if you had a good instructor, which is pretty hard to find, then you would have been able to learn more of a body swing instead of an arm swing. Golf is so hard becaue a lot teachers dont really understand the swing, and some of the ones who do cannot communicate it very well, but there are those who understand it and communicate it well, but that is not easy to find.

i never had an official lessons..... just learned from watching people and online instructions, and this site, and most of their advice said the body turn the arms and i completely disagree with that now, and that was what was screwing me up.

but everyone has a differnt feel thought that helps them and mine is arms.

[The Hud]

Re: Hip Turn in Back Swing - Resist or Not??

[quote=Macca_NZ]Hi


I find I am never sure how much my hips should turn in the back swing. I know the power gets created by having the hips turn less than shoulders. But I also notice that the pros swings don't seem to have an absence of hip turn in their swings.


I think alot has to do with what you classify as a hip turn, people get confused and turn their lower bodies with the swing and when that dose not work, they restrict their hips all together. I find that I turn my shoulders and navel together, at the same time I restrict the lower left side of my body. The turning of the upper body drags the left knee around and I can feel the torque build up in my right thigh. I hope this helps

[Macca_NZ]

Re: Hip Turn in Back Swing - Resist or Not??

Hi all

Thanks for the feedback.

I think what i can take from the comments is that provided i am keeping consistent knee flex in this right leg and not having it swaying of moving then I should just let the hips move however feels natural whilst completing the back swing.

Also would you all agree that a correct "pivot" of the hips actually gets the right hip feeling like it has turned and moved a bit towards the target?

Thanks again for your help

[shootin4par]

Re: Hip Turn in Back Swing - Resist or Not??

Hi all

Thanks for the feedback.

I think what i can take from the comments is that provided i am keeping consistent knee flex in this right leg and not having it swaying of moving then I should just let the hips move however feels natural whilst completing the back swing.

Also would you all agree that a correct "pivot" of the hips actually gets the right hip feeling like it has turned and moved a bit towards the target?

Thanks again for your help

be carefull, keeping a constant knee FLEX can get you into trouble, when the rear hip rotates behind you it will pull the knee up a little and that is OK. You woudl want to keep a constant rear leg ANGLE, this will ensure you dont get you rear leg over top of your rear foot. do this while getting your shoulders behind the ball.

[shootin4par]

Re: Hip Turn in Back Swing - Resist or Not??

i never had an official lessons..... just learned from watching people and online instructions, and this site, and most of their advice said the body turn the arms and i completely disagree with that now, and that was what was screwing me up.

but everyone has a differnt feel thought that helps them and mine is arms.

would you crack a whip, or hit a baseball, with an all arms motion?

[BrianW]

Re: Hip Turn in Back Swing - Resist or Not??

Instead of thinking in terms of hip rotation imagine your rotation in the back swing as three barrels sat on top of each other. One your upper body, one your central torso and one your lower body. Draw a chalk line down through them to represent your address position.

During the back swing the top barrel line will rotate clockwise about 90 degrees, the middle line around 60 degrees and the lower one around 45 degrees.

This should be a swing thought when practising, it is not an absolute science.

[lgskywalker37]

Re: Hip Turn in Back Swing - Resist or Not??

would you crack a whip, or hit a baseball, with an all arms motion?

definatly yes to baseball.....whip yes if i was going for speed, but ol if i had armor on becaue i would probly hurt myself.

but with the arms motion i am (trying) to describe.... not a only arms motion. i still have rotation.... it is just my arms rotatng my body and not visa versa. kind of like my body getting out of the way for my arms to go through. hard to explain. i like crockers finish line thought.