Found My Swing - Shorten Backswing.

[Timothy Slaught]

Re: Found My Swing - Shorten Backswing.

Hello:

Remember that two of the longest drivers in the game today are Bubba Watson and John Daly whose swings are very similiar (in fact, near mirror images of each other since they swing from different sides of the ball). These are the two extremes of the super-long swing. Some of the long ball experts such as Jason Zuback also employ this hyper-extended swing. Timing must be world class in these cases.

JB Holmes may have the shortest swing on the tour but he is also in the tops of the driving distance category. Wie has shortened her swing slightly but still gets it to parallel. Villegas is fairly compact as well. All are excellent strikers. Holmes and Villegas probably have the quickest hips on tour (although I prefer Michelle's!!). On the senior circuit, Dana Quigley and Allen Doyle have what the caddies call "daylight swings".....because you can barely see any daylight between the clubhead and the ball during their swing. Quick and short to say the least but both have made millions with these unorthodox swings.

Lot's of ways to get er done but most amateurs would do well to go no further than parallel with the driver and progressively shorter with the shorter clubs. Try not to get too much bend in the left arm and keep from getting too wristy at the top. You often hear the pros talk about "tightening up their swing". This terminology can be misleading as they are not talking about overt tension such as grip pressure. They are simply refering to their attempt to keep their muscle activity efficient and connected.

[snake]

Re: Found My Swing - Shorten Backswing.

Hi, good thread !
I am interested in how you manage to shrten your swing.
I overswing and bend my left arm when I should be stopping at the top.
If I take a practice swing I then my swing is short and tight but on the course its too long.
I try to shorten it without success.
How did you do it ?

[Simon Woo]

Re: Found My Swing - Shorten Backswing.

Tim, I've always had this big problem of getting too wristy at the top! Would be great if you could talk more about this.. Do u see that in a lot of beginners, people who overdo the backswing etc?

[BrianW]

Re: Found My Swing - Shorten Backswing.

Hi, good thread !
I am interested in how you manage to shorten your swing.
I over swing and bend my left arm when I should be stopping at the top.
If I take a practice swing I then my swing is short and tight but on the course its too long.
I try to shorten it without success.
How did you do it ?

Over swinging in the back swing is normally caused by early rotation of the right side, this results in poor positioning of the club and loss of power.

Here is a drill to help you get the correct feel by allowing your right leg to form a boundary that you can load and coil into but not beyond:

Take a normal address position with a mid iron. Draw your left foot back until your big toe is in line with the heel of your right foot. Have a slightly narrower stance than normal and the ball an inch inside your left heel.

As you make your back swing try to maintain the same amount of flex in your right knee that you had at address.

Repeat this exercise and get the feel of the right leg creating torque and anchoring the upper right torso. Try to recreate the same feeling in your normal golf swing.

As well as this ensure your feet (especially the left) are turned out to around 30 degrees in your normal address position, this will also create torque and resistance in the back swing.

Hope it helps.

[Timothy Slaught]

Re: Found My Swing - Shorten Backswing.

Hey Simon:

There can be a few causes of overswinging. Here they are starting from the ground up. (note, that these are not the only causes... just the likely culprits):

1) Right knee straightens in backswing. This causes the reverse pivot in the worst cases and at a minimum you loose stored energy with this move. It cannot be stressed enough that you should maintain the flex you start with at address. How much flex...not to little and not too much ...to be technical...,lol

2) The right knee (what I call "wounded knee") issue can also cause an over rotation of the hips.... and you can over rotate the hips even if you maintain the flex in the right knee although far less common. There is a lot of talk about the x-factor or differential between the hip turn and shoulder turn. The general rule is turn the hips 45 degrees and the shoulders 90. It's really no more complicated than that. One tip as far as the legs are concerned is that you should maintain a gap between the knees on the backswing. The gap you start with at address will narrow slightly as you turn in the backswing but don't let the left knee cave in severely toward the right. Maintain some tension in the lower half of the body.

3) Flying right elbow. This move should be tempered and experimented with. Too much fly and you take the club across the line and timing back to impact can be difficult. Too little fly and your swing can become too restricted and the club laid off. The two examples I point to as extremes are Retief Goosen who' s right elbow make Jack's look tucked in....and Robert Allenby who's right elbow barely leaves his right lat muscle. You can note that Retief is reworking his swing and trying to get rid of that wild right elbow action. You should go for a position that allows some freedom of motion but make sure the elbow points towards the ground and your right forearm is parallel with your back at the top.

4) Breakdown of left arm: What can you say about this topic? It has been discussed to death but I believe the experts feel that there can be some bend but you should strive for a fairly straight position. The one thing you should not feel is a lot of tension in the left arm. Most amateurs compensate for a lack of flexibility in their turn with the bent left elbow move. I used a simple sports compression garment (rubber sleeve) on my left elbow to help train myself to keep the arm straight. By the way I use one designed for the knee on my right knee to train myself to keep the flex there. These devices are great because they don't restrict your motion overtly but still give the muscles in those joints and my brain a reminder to do the right thing.

5) Floppy wrists and poor grips. These are two to watch out for. There has been so much discussion about wrists on this site but really my goal is the right hand drill as Greg describes. Some people feel that their wrists are too loose but usually it is a faulty grip that causes the player to loose hold of the club and have to re-grip at the top. If you feel that you are losing the club at the top try to start with a medium grip pressure and keep it there through the duration of the swing. This is maybe one of the most difficult things to achieve because the tendency is to tighten the grip as we start down. You will instinctively tighten the grip at impact and this cannot really be controlled but you should try to train yourself to keep the pressure even and controlled at the top and into your downswing. I did purchase a training device that was supposed to help with this issue. I forget the name but you basically stick it on your clubs grip and it emmits a light chirping sound if you have too much pressure. The thing did not work work a darn and I still am searching for a training device to help with grip pressure. I also have the problem of tightening at the top especially in the heat of battle so I am working on this.

All of these moves are sometimes referred to as power leaks because in addition to making club control an issue these positions and actions restrict club head speed as well. Any one of these can be a problem on their own but if a player exhibits a few it can be a real deal breaker.

Best of luck out there..

[Simon Woo]

Re: Found My Swing - Shorten Backswing.

Thanks for that long reply there Tim! I've always had this problem where at the top of my swing, the last movements are with the wrists. I guess as Matt puts it very well in this thread, perhaps the best fix is to just try and shorten my swing :P

[Matt10]

Re: Found My Swing - Shorten Backswing.

a quick update, I played today from the black tees (usually blues) and shot a 74. Came up 2 feet short of a hole in one on the 190 yard PAR 3. Couldn't get my putter going as much as I would want, but iron and driver were justs perfect.

I believe the key to my solid swing is this.

Shorter Backswing, slow tempo, right knee pushed left (like Hogan), heel of the club the only part that touches the ground (toe is in the air) and last is consistent routine.

Now if only I could get my putter going, been messing from conventional grip to saw-grip, missed some short ones with the saw grip so conventional might be the sticker.

It's good to see the thread is getting some responses, I really do hope peopel try to aim for a short and compact swing. I played with a guy today who just wouldn't listen to me (he was overswinging and slicing everything), until the very last hole in which he hit two great...straight shots, and finished with a 5putt for a birdie.

[pnearn]

Re: Found My Swing - Shorten Backswing.

IMHO overswinging is caused primarily by the hands/arms swinging the club and pulling it sideways. In any good golf swing the arms should only move up and the body should turn(pivot). So the body provides the sideways and the arms (forearms) provide the lift

http://www.golf-tuition-online.com/10522529-post6.html

If you use your arms and hands to pull/push the club to the side, then you will likely sway, come out of your angles and your wrists will break down. If you turn and lift you will get behind the ball, keep that right knee flexed, feel a stretch down the right side and be ready to come back down

[Simon Woo]

Re: Found My Swing - Shorten Backswing.

Good point there Paul. Body back, arms up. How difficult can the golf swing be right? :P

[Christo]

Re: Found My Swing - Shorten Backswing.

Just one question. You're not a 15.3 handicapper anymore playing a 71?
Must have improved your game a lot?

[pnearn]

Re: Found My Swing - Shorten Backswing.

Good point there Paul. Body back, arms up. How difficult can the golf swing be right? :P

As in my job Simon, the KISS principle applies (Keep It Simple Stupid)

Setup right, grip right, align right. Rotate the body, lift the arms. Simple

[LowPost42]

Re: Found My Swing - Shorten Backswing.

Matt,

I applied this theory in my last round... and I really, really started stroking the ball nicely - with no lost distance, but much increased accuracy. Go figure.

Thanks for the post!

[Matt10]

Re: Found My Swing - Shorten Backswing.

Just one question. You're not a 15.3 handicapper anymore playing a 71?
Must have improved your game a lot?

Ah yeah, I forgot to change that - now it's sitting at a 7hcp. I have to recheck it though, the staff said they were having problems with the computer, but it's most likely in the single digits.

I've improved alot in my ball striking - especially my driver. My mental game has kept me scoring well, especially when my putter doesn't go the way I want it to, much how it's been doing lately.

Played a practice round for a shotgun tourney this Thursday, shot a 75, like I said I'm having some putting problems. Going to do some research and get the feel back.

Matt,

I applied this theory in my last round... and I really, really started stroking the ball nicely - with no lost distance, but much increased accuracy. Go figure.

Thanks for the post!

That's great to hear, LP!! I always try to remember what Dave Pelz says: In the long game, it's the accuracy of the shot - not the distance, and the shortgame is all distance. I guess if I hit a shot well, but not the right club - coming up short is no big deal as long as I was online, and that's something I"m struggling with on my putter in distance.

Glad it's working out, would love to hear more. Take care.