I used to oversing and swat but now I come over-the-top !!!!!

[snake]

Hi,
This year I have tried to remodel my swing to fix some chronic faults.
My "chronics" are (were) :
1. OVERSWING DUE TO ARM COLLAPSE AT TOP
2. GETTING TRAPPED
3. SWATTING
4. LOSS OF SPINE ANGLE ON DOWNSWING
My "new sing thoughts" are :
1. USING RIGHT HAND DRILL @ PRACTICE
2. KEEPING FLEX IN RIGHT KNEE @ BACKSWING
3. TRYING TO CLEAR RIGHT HIP BEFORE IMPACT & KEEP SPINE ANGLE
Success has been intermittant but improving so I am in the right direction.
HOWEVER CAN SOMEBODY HELP WITH THIS NEW PROBLEM.
Especially when I shorten my backswing I start to come over the top with the shoulders resulting in a block or "choppy impact".
I dont really have a secure position at the top and I think in my "forced" stop point on the backswing it makes me initiate the downswing with an over-the-top move.
Any help / advise / drills/ MIRACLE CURES !!!!!!

[slf]

Re: I used to oversing and swat but now I come over-the-top !!!!!

it sounds to me as though your timing is out.
some pro's say that if you start your down swing with your arms you get a better swing plane and timing. although I am sure none of the pro's start down swing with arms, it may help you.

[WAE]

Re: I used to oversing and swat but now I come over-the-top !!!!!

Are you moving your hips through at impact? I used to fade(out to in) a lot due to not firing my hips through enough, Now I can draw by getting my hips through fast and the club has room to come through in an in to out path.

Another thought is, where is your club pointing at th etop of your back swing? It should still point at the target even with a shorter backswing.

[snake]

Re: I used to oversing and swat but now I come over-the-top !!!!!

Thanks for your comments.
I am not concious of how I start the downswng.
I heard that to drop the arms was good but I I struggle to clear my left side before impact so I think I may be simply firing my roght shoulder over the top.
What should be the first thought to start the downswing ?

Another point is "firing my hips".
I used to (still do) tent to slide instead of turning the hips.
Most of the turn happens after impact.

Any ideas ?

[slf]

Re: I used to oversing and swat but now I come over-the-top !!!!!

Another thought is, where is your club pointing at th etop of your back swing? It should still point at the target even with a shorter backswing.[/quote]

how does the club point at the target with a short back swing? with short back swing club head should be pointing at the sky.

[GregJWillis]

Re: I used to oversing and swat but now I come over-the-top !!!!!

...when I shorten my backswing I start to come over the top with the shoulders..."forced" stop point on the backswing

* Make sure you are using your ARM hight to shorten then swing, not the shoulders rotating. The shoulders should still rotate back full.

* Make sure your first move back is nothing BUT shoulder rotation.

* Make sure you are still fully setting and releasing the wrists...even in short swings they have to do the exact same thing as a full swing. UNLESS you are trying to "deaden the hands" to hit low stingers.

[slf]

Re: I used to oversing and swat but now I come over-the-top !!!!!

snake,
I get the feeling that you are thinking too much about the swing. when I do this my swing falls apart. I then go back to basics, grip, posture, ball position, wrist cock and shoulder turn. if you feel lost, start again. right from the basics. I believe that we make this game lot harder than it should be. a lesson with a good pro may sort all this out for you.

[snake]

Re: I used to oversing and swat but now I come over-the-top !!!!!

Thanks again everybody for your comments.
Yes, I think I am thinking too deeply about my swing but I cant change !

Greg Willis mentioned to make sure that I am using the arm height to shorten the backswing and not lack of shoulder rotation.
I am sure that I make a good rotation so I believe that it is the height I try to restrict.
However I cant get a secure position at the top and the left arm tends to collapse. When I do "force" this position I think that is when I start to come over the top.
Therefore any further help ???????

[BrianW]

Re: I used to oversing and swat but now I come over-the-top !!!!!

Here is a great drill I have suggested to others. Please try it and let me know if it helps.

The start of the downswing is identical to that of walking, try not to analyse this part of your golfswing too much.

Try this drill to find the answer:

Setup with a narrow stance and place the ball about an inch ahead of your left foot (Righties). Make a smooth backswing and just as you are about to start the downswing allow your left foot to step to the left side of the ball. In reality your left leg should start to move just before you reach the top of your backswing.

As your weight naturally settles on your left side fire your body through the ball to your finish position.

Repeat this drill a number of times and try to pick up the wave like motion that will start to come after a few shots.

[WAE]

Re: I used to oversing and swat but now I come over-the-top !!!!!

Another thought is, where is your club pointing at th etop of your back swing? It should still point at the target even with a shorter backswing.

how does the club point at the target with a short back swing? with short back swing club head should be pointing at the sky.[/quote]

My club points at 2pm if you were looking at me face on, but always parallel with the target.

[snake]

Re: I used to oversing and swat but now I come over-the-top !!!!!

Hi,
Face on with a short back-wing it points at 2pm or 3pm.
With a bent arm backswing it can point to 5pm !!!!!
Anyway, my target is 2pm but I cant do this consitstantly.
It is not laid-off and points in-line to target (roughly).
It is just when I start the downswing it definately moves outside.
Any idea / commet / help ?

[BrianW]

Re: I used to oversing and swat but now I come over-the-top !!!!!

Hi,
Face on with a short back-wing it points at 2pm or 3pm.
With a bent arm backswing it can point to 5pm !!!!!
Anyway, my target is 2pm but I cant do this consitstantly.
It is not laid-off and points in-line to target (roughly).
It is just when I start the downswing it definately moves outside.
Any idea / commet / help ?

Have you tried the drill I suggested?

[BrianW]

Re: I used to oversing and swat but now I come over-the-top !!!!!

You can do this with or w/o a club or both.

1. W/o a club palce the palms facing each other about a foot apart.

2. Transfer all your weight to the backside, in fact pick up yout front foot and lightly stand on your toes.

3. Swing the arms and hands back and notice how the arms collapse.

4. Try to swing the arms and hands down and notice there is no pulling power, just a floppy mess of mush. The shoulders want to turn around.

5. Now bring the hands and arms back to the top and lower the front foot and the front hip will bump out and notice hoe thew arms become strighter, the front shoulder is up, the back shoulder is down and you have pulling power. Now you are pulling under.

You need to work on your hips or knees or both to maintain pulling power.

No power in the legs or hips, they stand to the side of the ball, but they allow for and maintain the pulling power in the swing to produce speed.

I will turn this back over to the guys and they can tell you all the ways of how to use the hips and knees.

Brain you want to start with the back knee?

Hi Cmays,

That's right, just the same as walking!

Oh! It's BRIan, not BRAin.

[Timothy Slaught]

Re: I used to oversing and swat but now I come over-the-top !!!!!

Hello:

Two thoughts:

1) Don't make the mistake of shortening your impact position & follow through to go with your new shortened backswing. This is an easy trap to fall into. Make sure you extend through impact into a full follow through.

2) Do not shorten things too drastically with the driver and longer clubs. It is difficult to time things when you are not givng your body enough time to respond to the swing. As Greg pointed out, it is really just a shorter arm swing that you are striving for. A full turn including the shoulders and back is a must.

Take a look at Dana Quigley and Allen Doyle from the US Senior tour. Two of the shortest swings you'll ever see but they do the right things at the right time where it counts...impact!!