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**LowPost42** · 11-08-2006, 05:50 PM

Re: Problems with changing to a one-plane swing

My advice is don't fix what ain't broken. If you're playing better than bogey golf with a 2 plane swing, why not dial that in?

Try this:

Keep your hips square throughout your backswing. Keep your arms and hands passive once you're at the top. Turn your hips as fast as you can for the throughswing - KEEPING YOUR ARMS PASSIVE!

It'll get you on a better path.

**kbp** · 11-08-2006, 07:08 PM

Re: Problems with changing to a one-plane swing

Sorry...I didn't see the video link.....disregard previous comments please.

**detonum** · 11-08-2006, 08:03 PM

Re: Problems with changing to a one-plane swing

Lowpost: I'm aiming for a better game in long term. I weighed the pros and cons of the one and two plane swings, and decided that it's time to make the change, although I have a working two plane swing.
I'll try your instructions, thanks.

kbp: Looking at my spine angle from address to backswing, it's good. The club is on shoulder plane. Now that I watch the video, you can see that in the downswing, my shoulder plane gets alot flatter. The right shoulder is very high at impact while the should be at it's steepest angle. That cant be good, might be the reason of my over the top move? Im going to have to experiment with that..

**LowPost42** · 11-08-2006, 08:54 PM

Re: Problems with changing to a one-plane swing

Looking at the video again, I'll reinforce keeping your hips still on the backswing, and rotating them fully on the throughswing. It's hard to tell, but it seems you're squaring your hips at impact, which throws your arms at the ball. Keep the arms passive, and always be turning.

**Robert O' Keeffe** · 11-08-2006, 10:31 PM

Re: Problems with changing to a one-plane swing

You are on an out to in plane. You are collapsing your hands at the top which is making for "over the top". Try working on keeping the left hand cupped from take away to impact. This should eliminate the ott and make for a solid impact

**BrianW** · 11-09-2006, 12:00 PM

Re: Problems with changing to a one-plane swing

A few observations:

You are over swinging by allowing your hips and upper body to be overactive, try to anchor your right leg to create more coil.

You are losing your plane in the downswing by lifting your spine angle. Look at the position of your head relative to the top of the door as you swing down, it raises. You should try and get a little more squat in the downswing, let your legs flex as they create a stable base, while maintaining the address spine angle.

**kbp** · 11-09-2006, 05:08 PM

Re: Problems with changing to a one-plane swing

More specifically, you are losing your spine angle because you are crowding into the ball with your hips on the downswing and this is forcing you to raise up. This is also blocking full hip rotation so your shoulders and arms are passing by the hips creating that swat to the left. IMO, you need to rotate more about your axis. Think of rotating your hips about your spine angle rather than horizontally.

Also, take a look at your right foot during the downswing. See how early the heel is off the ground... not good, IMO. Work on the spine angle/rotation and see is this doesn’t improve.

I’ve had a lot of success breaking this problem of "pushy" hips crowding the ball with this method. Take your address to the ball. Move yourself into an "ideal" impact position.... ie. good spine angle, hips open to the target, shoulders VERY slightly open to the target, more of your weight on a firm left leg with just the left edge of the right foot on the ground, right knee bent, head behind the ball, hands in front of the ball with a nice line from left shoulder to ball Get all settled. You may feel too "low" but of course you are "low" compared to your typical impact. Now from this impact position take a full backswing to the top and down swing back through impact and into a follow through. Do this full speed and hit the ball. In other words hit balls starting from an impact position rather than a typical address position. This might give you the feeling of proper rotation and hip action.

**detonum** · 11-09-2006, 08:04 PM

Re: Problems with changing to a one-plane swing

Thank you for the replies, they've been very helpful!

BrianW, that image of anchoring the right foot helped alot. I tried some stuff and filmed my swing, and it's alot better now, while still a little out-in.

I worked on the foot anchoring (which shortened my backswing alot, it's still going a little past parallel so I'm going to have to shorten it a little bit more), and I then full throttled to impact by turning my hips, but I tried to route my right shoulder down through the ball. In the video the right shoulder is lower, but still not as low as it should be. Also my head lowered a couple of inches from address to backswing, and stayed at the same level through impact.

The right foot heel is annoying me! It's really tough to full throttle through impact without lifting it. I'm thinking it's cause of this: hip push to the left -> weight shifts to the left leg -> rotation which lifts the right heel. That drill sounds very good kbp, I'm going to try that out.

I have a question though: when I rotate my hips with the weight at the center, the left leg straightens. Should this be allowed to happen at impact?

Im going to keep working on your advice and post a new video in the weekend so that you can see the progress.

**chessbum** · 11-10-2006, 12:14 AM

Re: Problems with changing to a one-plane swing

I agree with lowpost42. Why start messing with your swing when you are scoring well. Truth is that at the amateur level, it's too tough to to make these kind of changes. You should play with a swing that feels natural to you.

Keep messing with your swing and you will be so confused you won't be able to hit a 50 yard dribbler...

Just my opinion...

**shootin4par** · 11-10-2006, 02:42 AM

Re: Problems with changing to a one-plane swing

can you post a vidoe of face on? I suspect some things but would like to confirm it first so I dont stick my foot in my mouth

**bdbl** · 11-10-2006, 09:22 AM

Re: Problems with changing to a one-plane swing

Originally posted by detonum

I'm aiming for a better game in long term. I weighed the pros and cons of the one and two plane swings, and decided that it's time to make the change

This could make the basis of an interesting article discussing the pros and cons of the two swings.

Detonum clearly thinks that the one plane swing has more merit but I was under the impression that there was no definitive "better" swing. A bit like the arm v shoulder takeaway debate there are merely advocates of each theory.

As a matter of interest are the two linked e.g arm & two-plane and shoulder & one-plane?

Mind you I'm not much bothered which I am as I suspect that controlling the length and speed of my backswing has most to do with whether I'm hitting the ball cleanly.

**BrianW** · 11-10-2006, 09:51 AM

Re: Problems with changing to a one-plane swing

Originally posted by bdbl

This could make the basis of an interesting article discussing the pros and cons of the two swings.

Detonum clearly thinks that the one plane swing has more merit but I was under the impression that there was no definitive "better" swing. A bit like the arm v shoulder takeaway debate there are merely advocates of each theory.

As a matter of interest are the two linked e.g arm & two-plane and shoulder & one-plane?

Mind you I'm not much bothered which I am as I suspect that controlling the length and speed of my backswing has most to do with whether I'm hitting the ball cleanly.

Hi Bdbl,

My opinion is that the most efficient an direct route from address to impact is the plane set by each club at address, so I am a proponent of the one plane swing.

The use of arm/shoulder takeaway does not relate to the swing type.

**kbp** · 11-10-2006, 07:51 PM

Re: Problems with changing to a one-plane swing

Originally posted by detonum

The right foot heel is annoying me! It's really tough to full throttle through impact without lifting it. I'm thinking it's cause of this: hip push to the left -> weight shifts to the left leg -> rotation which lifts the right heel. That drill sounds very good kbp, I'm going to try that out.

Well, in your video, you’re NOT pushing your hips to the left (towards the target), you’re pushing your hips forward (perpendicular to the target line). Your right hip is moving out towards your toes. Your right heel has no choice but to follow along and raise up quickly. I call it "spinning out" the hips. You probably end on your left toe sometimes in your follow through, I bet. Instead, you might try "thinking" right hip moving left and down and left hip up and back (behind you). In other words, rotation about your spine axis rather than rotation about a vertical axis. After all, we’re talking about a one-plane, rotary, rounded, layed-off, whatever you want to call it, kind of swing.

Set up at address and move your lower body directly from address to a balanced impact position. (Note: You might feel like there’s too much weight on the right edge of your right foot compared to "real" impact, but that’s just because this is not a full speed full swing ) The club, the head, the arms, the hands and the spine angle stay in about the same position. The hips and lower torso will rotate and open to the target and this will rotate the shoulders just a bit open from the address position. Move back to address. Repeat back and forth, in balance, until you get the feel of this. See how your right knee moves in this drill. Next, hit some balls starting from impact, up to the top, down through the ball and on to follow through.

Good luck.

**detonum** · 11-11-2006, 09:19 AM

Re: Problems with changing to a one-plane swing

Thanks for the advice kbp, you're right, I do end up on the left toe. Today I tried to take some swings with the feeling im sitting on a bar stool, where I have to rotate, but not stand up and fall off it. Or in other words, stick my butt out during the swing. With this image, I could turn my hips as much as I could, and the right heel doesn't raise that much anymore.

I filmed both down the line and face on, as shootin4par asked for. I noticed something: I'm not getting enough arm rotation in the downswing. My clubhead stays open, clubhead lags way too much, forcing me to flip my hands to square the clubface to impact (I don't feel or do that consciously though).

bdbl:
I think the one-plane swing is better for ME, because:
-I'm young and flexible, not super-strong but enough for the one-plane swing
-one-plane swing relies less on timing. We have a short season in Finland and I don't want to be trying to get the timing right for half the season. Also because there is less timing, it's better under pressure.
-torso rotation with passive arms feels alot more natural to me
You should read Hardy's book, you will understand the differences between the two swings alot better.

chessbum: this summer, before I started to get interested in my swing, I had a bad swing, but my backswing was on shoulder plane, like the one-plane swing. That is what feels more natural to me. During the summer I progressed to a two-plane swing, because I did not know of better ways. I'm sort of going back to old, natural ways.

Here's the video

http://www.tommikaikkonen.com/swing7.mov

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