Hips slide and then turn.....????

[Ian Hancock]

Chew the fat on this guys please.

* Do the hips slide on the downswing and then rotate or just rotate............It is impossible to slide without turning eventually.

* Do the hips continue to rotate or STOP for a split second at impact........???



I'll explain later.


Thanks in advance for your imput.


Ian.

[pnearn]

Re: Hips slide and then turn.....????

My 2c

I think they have to slide, just a little, before they rotate.

Personally I feel like I drive my legs (knees specifically) to start the DS which shifts my hips laterally, posts up the left leg which the hip then rotates around. All the time the arms are being pulled down

Have a look at this great video clip about 40 seconds in where they do the front on views and watch the hips. They do move laterally until the left leg firms then they rotate around it. Adams left leg almost pops at the end he's driving so hard with his lower body

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZecVi...elated&search=

As for stopping, im not sure they do. I think its one whole motion. A powerful leg drive forward would he hard to stop. As soon as that leg drives has got me on my left side I rotate my upper body hard left. Of course the 2 motions happen so quickly - bang bang.. but I stuggle when I dont get that lower body left because then I rotate around my right leg and hit pulls/hooks all day long

so ... what's occuring mate?

[msklar92]

Re: Hips slide and then turn.....????

They simply rotate on a level plain. If you look at your belt buckle in a mirror it should go back and forth on the same plane. No tilt. Sliding the hips leads to either tilting or instability between the upper and lower body. They may slide a touch when your weight is transferred, but it is not something I would intentionally try to do. Mike. PS this is a basic fundamental law in the Nick Bradely book.

[Ian Hancock]

Re: Hips slide and then turn.....????

Thanks Guys,

I'll continue, Liam has lessons off the County Coach and he said Liam stops his hips for a split second at impact stopping him from following through better than he does.

Now I thought it was normal and I know Liam collapses his arms a little, way after impact I might add, but you look at Westwood and he is identical to Liam, his head stays down that long the arms have to break in the followthrough.

Just looked at your Tiger vs Adam swing and Adam stops for a second at the point of impact.........


Or am I just barking mad.

Ian.

[msklar92]

Re: Hips slide and then turn.....????

Ian, as I mentioned on a previous post on Liam, his hips are tilted, not level with a large reverse C. This position is unstable and puts a strain on the back. Probably not a problem for 10 year old but over time ......
Mike.

[pnearn]

Re: Hips slide and then turn.....????

Ian

I think maybe the hip rotation is slowing at impact because the hips should have turned around that left leg and cleared well before then. At impact the upper body is charging around doing its rotation and finish. I know if my hips stop turning through the downswing, my arms fling past my body, I lose the lag and sling the club across the target line

Is he saying that Liam stops turning through the ball and lets his arms take over? So he doesnt get as much of that freewheeling arms through impact that he could if he continued the pivot to the finish?

I know if I drive my legs then my hips slide a little then turn hard. Kind of really feeling the left leg post up and everything flinging around it. Impossible to stop it really unless I dont get that little lateral shift and get onto my left side. If I dont I end up turning around my right leg or weak left leg, in which case my hands definitely take over

[pnearn]

Re: Hips slide and then turn.....????

Sliding the hips leads to either tilting or instability between the upper and lower body. They may slide a touch when your weight is transferred, but it is not something I would intentionally try to do. Mike. PS this is a basic fundamental law in the Nick Bradely book.

Mike, I would say they have to slide a little else the weight never gets on the left side. If you look at those clips Adam and Tiger definitely turn, slide, turn -unless its one of those optical illusions.

If you just turned your hips from the top you would just spin around your right leg. However as you say, slide too much and you will push/block

Such fine margins

I find using the feet and legs to drive the DS just makes my hips work the way they are supposed to. If I ever tried to consciously use my hips I slide or spin out -- one or the other

[Ian Hancock]

Re: Hips slide and then turn.....????

No mate,

The point being, I think his head stays down for a lot longer than most, again like Westwood, this I think causes the arms to break near the end of the followthrough maybe not the hip rotation, the Pro thinks it is because his hips don't keep going and almost stop for a split second.

I watch the clip we took last week face on and I just don't see it:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...oid=1391176566


I am sorry Mike, I just don't get your reverce C thing and tilting hips at all, this shot was taken on a up hill slop.

Ian.

[pnearn]

Re: Hips slide and then turn.....????

No mate,

The point being, I think his head stays down for a lot longer than most, again like Westwood, this I think causes the arms to break near the end of the followthrough maybe not the hip rotation, the Pro thinks it is because his hips don't keep going and almost stop for a split second.

I watch the clip we took last week face on and I just don't see it:

Ian.

I agree with you Ian. His leg action is tremendous. Pre impact he couldnt be better. When he gets stronger and his left leg gets more powerful he'll probably post up on it better as well and hit the ball a mile!

What he does though is keeps his head stuck and doesnt seem to turn his upper body (and head) hard through the ball as he could. This probably slows down his pivot anyway but I would say this is the cause rather than the effect. If he could master that he'd have far more extension post impact. Due to the head slowing the upper body down through impact, he ends up with his arms slinging past his body, hence why they collapse a bit quickly and dont extend fully

Tell him his head is an 18lb weight that needs to follow the rest of the body! Id have him trying to make his eyes follow the ball through impact - have his head turn as his shoulder turns. Might be hard for him to get used to and he'll have to learn to trust it and time it but he's got age on his side!

This might be overly technical for Liam but the videos illustrate poor vs good head movement through impact pretty well I think

http://coachesinfo.com/category/golf/58/

[BrianW]

Re: Hips slide and then turn.....????

Hi Ian,

It difficult to pause at at the right moment in the video but, I managed to do it. Looking at the position where Liam's starting the release with the club back to horizontal in the down swing you can see a definite reverse "C" with his hips way forward of his feet and shoulder.

It looks like it is caused by the right leg becoming too active early on in the downswing, thus pushing the legs and hips forward early. It would help if he could work on transferring weight to the left side first then pushing through with the right leg and arms.

Nick Bradley has a great drill "The Step In Drill" That would help with getting the right sensation. :

Set up with a narrow stance and the ball just forward of the left foot. make a smooth back swing and just as you are about to come back down take a step to the left with the left foot so that it moves forward of the ball, continue with the downswing to a balanced finish. It give the correct feel of the weight transferring to the left side then, the right following through.

Ayway, I hope this is of some help.

[msklar92]

Re: Hips slide and then turn.....????

re: the Nick Bradley book, The seven laws of the golf swing check out page 130. Hope this helps.

[pnearn]

Re: Hips slide and then turn.....????

Brian/Ian

When you can get it to stop in the right place I can see what you mean. He doesnt post up his left leg totally so his hips slide a bit too far forward. This might be why the pro thinks he stops turning because he's not straightened the left leg quite right.

Most power players have that "post-up" swing where they hit into a firm left leg. Something Ive been working on hard myself. Woods and Scott in that clip both shift their weight onto their left leg, then rotate their upper body around that leg as fast as they can. To get that furious rotary action, they snap their left leg almost straight at the knee. They then go at it with their upper bodies as hard as they can. That post-up type swing generates BIG speed and distance.

BUT--- Jack Nicklaus, Tom Watson etc etc sagged their left knee toward the target, so that at impact, there was a distinct bend at the knee and a reverse C like you see with Liam. This action promtes solid contact and accuracy but less distance

And there was not much wrong with Jack! I think if Liam let his head go with his upper body a little better post impact he'd get away with it anyway as he's so flexible.. but longer term he'd probably want to work on getting his left leg firmer before impact to get more power

Just my fri afternoon, back from the pub, rambling thoughts!

And lets not forgetyou he is only 10! I'll be well chuffed if my little lad has a swing like that in a few years time!

[shootin4par]

Re: Hips slide and then turn.....????

I did not read all of the previous posts, i dont have time right now but this is an intersting topic.
the hips slide to establish a pivot point, so if your weight is 50/50 at address you will bump back to establish the right femur as a pivot point
then on the downswing they will bump the other way to do the same thing
if they slide where they go outside edges of the foot you will be in trouble with swaying. the problem comes if you think slide the hips because this will not engage the lower part of the legs, the feet must be grounded and the resistance needs to start from there so it can work its way up all the ways to the shoulder

so in short the hips have to establish a pivot point, right femur, left femur, shift the weight down into the right foot, left foot and the slide and pivot should happen pretty automatically
my 02

[shootin4par]

Re: Hips slide and then turn.....????

and yes the hips will stop at one point because the hips rotate on the downswing and then stop for the shoulders to catch up, when the shoulders pass the hips they then pull the hips to the finish. From what I have learned that happens when the hips are around 45* or so,

[Ian Hancock]

Re: Hips slide and then turn.....????

Thankyou very much for all your replies, I will take another clip today and study more, I just don't see any reverse C at all in his swing, I will take one today on some flat ground.

So we have established he does not stop.......!!

I know his head stays down far to long, this could be a probable cause of the break down etc, but I don't want to push him at all, so I will let it develop. The one thing you guys don't see is the increadable distance he hits for his size, at the driving range on Thursday night he was hitting his pitching wedge 100yds...................like me........!!


Thanks again, I am working on my hips this winter too, mine are just to lazy.


Ian.