Club selection and Ball Lie

[jamesh]

What would be the factors to consider for club selection (say distance from the pin is 300 plus) and the lie of the ball...

I have been having some trouble with my hybrid club (topping and hitting it fat) when the ball has been sitting on a slight downhill lie and slightly indented in the turf. I am wondering if I would of been better off using an iron…. What would be the factors to consider when using an iron or hybrid and the ball position on the ground.


Many thanks,


James

[Martin Levac]

Re: Club selection and Ball Lie

Think of the lie of the ball as a function of accuracy. Accuracy as a function of proper contact.

The first question I would ask is can I make proper contact with all/any club I'd use for the shots that are available to me. If not, then which clubs can I make best contact with. And so forth until I find the club that will allow me the best shot for the conditions my ball is in. Play the shot, live with the result. As a last resort, take unplayable lie option which could allow a wider selection of clubs therefore a much better expected result than otherwise.

Perhaps it's not what you asked but it will help you find what you want to know through trial and error.


Martin Levac

[LowPost42]

Re: Club selection and Ball Lie

Hi James,

Downhill lie: Play the ball back further in your stance, as your trailing shoulder is closer to the ground. Level your shoulders to the slope to minimize this. Take less club, as you will be de-lofting the club at impact. Since the ball is back, the shot will tend to leak to the fade side - aim accordingly.

Ball in an indentation: Now is NOT the time for a wide sole club - be it a game improvement iron, a hybrid, or a sand wedge with a ton of bounce. Sitting down in a hole is a tough lie - you really have to put a good strike on the ball. Take more club, as the contact will be nowhere near clean and good. The thinner the sole, the better - you want to dig here. It's similar to a fried egg lie in a bunker (except you're trying to pick the ball clean, not blast out).

[BrianW]

Re: Club selection and Ball Lie

It is difficult to advise here as the solution will rely on your skills with various clubs. I can tell you what I would do though:

In this scenario I would not consider trying to hit a 200 yard shot to the green as the percentage risk of getting poor contact with a club capable of that distance would be too high. I would look to hitting a shot that would safely carry 100 to 130 yards, leaving me a finesse wedge shot close to the pin. Depending on how bad the indented lie I would look for a full 7 iron or a punched 5 iron to do it. Failing all this with a deeply buried lie, I would dig it out onto the fairway with a pitching wedge with a closed face and ball back in stance.

[jamesh]

Re: Club selection and Ball Lie

Hi James,


Ball in an indentation: Now is NOT the time for a wide sole club - be it a game improvement iron, a hybrid, or a sand wedge with a ton of bounce. Sitting down in a hole is a tough lie - you really have to put a good strike on the ball. Take more club, as the contact will be nowhere near clean and good. The thinner the sole, the better - you want to dig here. It's similar to a fried egg lie in a bunker (except you're trying to pick the ball clean, not blast out).

Gents thanks for all of your posts! Is there any good literature to read on lies and clubs… or authors I can search….i.e., from this kind of lie this club is your best option etc. PDF files are great I have lots of them – but none on this topic.

Lowpost42 you touched on something I have been thinking about. I have Callaway
Hawk Eye Irons, with an oversized head – I think designed for a high handicapper. The club head itself is a cavity back – it looks very muscular and the sole of this club is very thick; incredibly thick. I do not see how this thickness can make the club easier to hit. What is the rationale for it…. In comparison, I have a 48 degree wedge from Taylormade and I love it – the sole on this club is unusually thin – and I find this club much easier to hit, and I have a very good result. I also have a Big Bertha Wedge and it too is unusually thick – and I find it harder to hit…..

Finally as your ball striking improves I suppose it is better to get clubs for a mid handicapper – low handicapper etc so you can add more shots to your repertoire.

Thanks,

James

[LowPost42]

Re: Club selection and Ball Lie

The wide sole does two things - the first is add weight to the bottom of the club - increasing your trajectory (Game Improvement job number 1: Get the ball up). The other thing it does is add forgiveness to fat shots - the wider sole resists digging - it helps the club come back up out of the turf (if the turf is found before the ball).

[BrianW]

Re: Club selection and Ball Lie

Hey James,

You have edited your original and changed the distance from the pin from 200 yds to 300 yards. My previous comments will no longer count for this new distance.

[bdbl]

Re: Club selection and Ball Lie

Hey James,

You have edited your original and changed the distance from the pin from 200 yds to 300 yards. My previous comments will no longer count for this new distance.

Ah that explains the mismatch between posts, however I think Brian's comment still has some relevance to general play irrespective of the lie - especially for higher handicappers.

On the 300 yd shot I'd still go for 2 * 150 shots that I have a greater probability of making than trying to muscle a fairway wood to leave a 80 - 100yd wedge.

The 200 yd shot even more so - out of 10 attempts to hit the green what do you reckon? 1 on, 1 in the greenside bunker, 4 in the woods, 2 flubbed 30 yards, and 2 almost but not quite there leaving a 20 yard pitch over self same bunker.

[jamesh]

Re: Club selection and Ball Lie

Hey James,

You have edited your original and changed the distance from the pin from 200 yds to 300 yards. My previous comments will no longer count for this new distance.

Brian thanks for your posts, I appreciated the time and effort it takes to respond at GTO. I did edit that post, but I just corrected some grammatical errors (I had an “a” in front of the word iron twice.)

I didn’t change the distance.

The distance was sort of immaterial – I just wanted to indicate that you weren’t close to the pin – and you wanted to hit the ball far. Moreover, I wouldn’t change a post materially once others have commented, since it would be intrinsically unfair to them, and dissuade them and others from responding to my posts in the future.

I noticed you are from the UK. I picked up an excellent publication: The Encyclopaedia of Golf Techniques by Chris Meadows, with Allen F. Richardson. I paid about $10.00 for it on clearance – I would have paid 5 times that amount.

James

[slater170]

Re: Club selection and Ball Lie

hi james
you are right that is an exellent instruction book
chris meadows is a director of the playgolf centre in manchester.
he doesnt do any coaching there but his assistants do and you getthat book for free when you book lessons there and that is what they work to.

[BrianW]

Re: Club selection and Ball Lie

Brian thanks for your posts, I appreciated the time and effort it takes to respond at GTO. I did edit that post, but I just corrected some grammatical errors (I had an “a” in front of the word iron twice.)

I didn’t change the distance.

The distance was sort of immaterial – I just wanted to indicate that you weren’t close to the pin – and you wanted to hit the ball far. Moreover, I wouldn’t change a post materially once others have commented, since it would be intrinsically unfair to them, and dissuade them and others from responding to my posts in the future.

I noticed you are from the UK. I picked up an excellent publication: The Encyclopaedia of Golf Techniques by Chris Meadows, with Allen F. Richardson. I paid about $10.00 for it on clearance – I would have paid 5 times that amount.

James

Hi James,

Sorry, was my mistake then. Hope you were assisted by our comments.

I will look out for that book, sounds interesting. My current favourite is "The 7 Laws of the Golf Swing" by Nick Bradley. If you can get hold of it I think you will find the thinking and graphical techniques very intuitive.