Curing OTT

[mariner]

I seem to spend my life searching for a cure to the over-the-top/outside in swingpath . . . . let's try a different way - can anyone tell me how to come from the inside TOO MUCH with a big in to out swingpath?

[GregJWillis]

Re: Curing OTT

Pull the arms INTO the chest to the top...then push the arms out AWAY from the chest into impact.

[oldwease]

Re: Curing OTT

I think the position of the right arm at the top of the backswing holds the key.

If you achieve the correct position, then you're more likely to stay on plane (or in-to-out) on the downswing. The correct wind-up enables the arms and shoulders to work together without throwing the club over the top.

[pnearn]

Re: Curing OTT

You are swinging with the arms and not clearing your right hip. Thats the bottom line

Try this little test.

-Stand with your belt buckle facing forward (12pm) and swing your arms. Look how they have to go round and in front of your right hip

-Now stand so that your belt buckle is facing 10am and swing your arms slowly .. see this time how your right hip is out the way and there is an inside 'lane' down which your arms can travel from the inside

I tried for 5 years to try and find a way of not coming OTT whilst being a hands and arms swinger. Its impossible

You have to learn to give up control of the downswing to your lower body and keep your arms and hands as soft as possible. The thing that worked for me was the feeling that I tried to hit the ball with my right hip. Think right hip as the thing that moves first in the DS. If you can do this you will feel like you are going to hit the ball way left because it will seem like you are so open at impact (see Gregs impact drill) but you wont IF you keep your arms and hands soft (this is what builds lag). If you can do this and you hit the ball left its because you are still fighting that urge to turn your hands over as a legacy of the OTT move. If you hit pushes thats better but thats because you are still holding on too tight and not trusting yourself to let go

You will have to hit a lot of balls to get out of the habit. It wont happen overnight so accept that. If you find as you get that lower body turning first with soft arms/hands that you arent getting immediate results dont do what I did and go back to swinging with arms and hands again as you'll go back to square one. Theres no miracle cures in this game, it takes time and patience

Good luck mate. And keep at it .. the desire is obviously there and thats ta great thing

[takinitdeep]

Re: Curing OTT

Very nice post, pnearn, my sentiments exactly
No excuse for introducing tension and no way to play golf with it. Stretching before a round is very important; many will say they need to do it, but cold muscles are short and tense, they react to being challenged for the first time out that day by getting even shorter and more tense-its a survival reaction.
Going out cold, not warming up gradually, not stretching, thinking you can bomb those first drives, all is frought with disaster.

[shootin4par]

Re: Curing OTT

turning the hips from the top really fast is not always the fix. If your weight does not go down into your feet but you just turn your hips, you will tranfer no energy or resistance. if no energy/resistance is transferred from the feet up then there will be no solid left side and no left shoulder snapping back up and in, but rather spinning out and roundhousing. Stand up and twist your hips 25* to the right and left and notice the shouders react very little, now do the same but shift your weight down into your lead foot and the shouders will react more.

[pnearn]

Re: Curing OTT

turning the hips from the top really fast is not always the fix. If your weight does not go down into your feet but you just turn your hips, you will tranfer no energy or resistance. if no energy/resistance is transferred from the feet up then there will be no solid left side and no left shoulder snapping back up and in, but rather spinning out and roundhousing. Stand up and twist your hips 25* to the right and left and notice the shouders react very little, now do the same but shift your weight down into your lead foot and the shouders will react more.

True Shootin, but the OTT arm/hand swinger has to start the process of working on lower body rotation to clear that hip. Often its one key thought - such as fire the right hip, step off the right foot etc that makes everything else come together.

I fire my right side by stepping off my right instep. I like to feel the right foot and right hip go together, pushing off the resistance Ive built up the inside of right leg.

[shootin4par]

Re: Curing OTT

True Shootin, but the OTT arm/hand swinger has to start the process of working on lower body rotation to clear that hip.

not sure I follow you, does my post above state anything to the contrary

[LowPost42]

Re: Curing OTT

not sure I follow you, does my post above state anything to the contrary

I think, (having a vested interest in solutions) that what pnearn is getting as is that you're discounting going hips first.

Now, shootin is right. Hips aren't always the answer. I can still spin my hips AND come OTT. I'm actually pretty good at it. (I'm not sure if this is good or bad).

Coming OTT happens, for me, when I try to hit the ball, or really go after it. If I simply swing the club back, and turn my hips and shoulders through, I don't come OTT. At all. But energizing my arms on the DS creates seperation, and a move that comes across the target line.

[shootin4par]

Re: Curing OTT

discussions are always good to get more info out there and get to the root of things,
My main point was the weight must shift down onto the lead foot to allow for proper hip motion or you will just spin your hips out and still not get anywhere. In gregs walking drill the weight goes down, first, same with a baseball swing or baseball throw. In golf first the weight must shift then the hips will follow. That is why you hear some great golfers saying the swing strarts from the ground up. The ground is what gives us the leverage and brace otherwise we would be all over the place. SOme people say bump the hips but if the weight does not go down then the hips will slide past the left leg and you will lunge

In my mind the golf swing is the backswing
transition- meaning shifting of weight
downswing, hips unwind

[vp27519]

Re: Curing OTT

Hi Mariner,

There are many keys and one just needs to find the right one that works for them.

I try and feel an exaggerated loop coming on the inside for the first movement to start the downswing. It feels almighty but shown on video - I stay on plane. It's just a matter of engraining this feel and trusting it.

I don't have over the top if I maintain my hip and spine positions throughout the swing. It's only when I try and rip the lil white pill that I come OTT.

In practice I work on my swing.

When it comes to competition. I am only focusing on the target and for my woods, I'm thinking of hips in position and for the full shot irons, I'm thinking of the length of the swing - half.

Good luck.

[pnearn]

Re: Curing OTT

not sure I follow you, does my post above state anything to the contrary

No it doesnt. My point *I think* is that for the average OTT player the actual feeling of not energizing the arms (as LowPost so eloquently put it) and using the lower body to control the downswing is an INCREDIBLY difficult thing to learn to do, since it goes against every natural instinct those players have. Its a new motion to hit a stationary object that has to learnt and trusted

Therefore initially I think you have to keep the ideas simple, a few movements the mind and body can achieve such as fire the right hip, or step off the right instep, all whilst keeping the shoulders and arms passive. The feeling of the lower body turning and pulling the arms, rather than the arms turning and pulling the body. Then when those basic movements feel more comfortable/natural and you can strike the ball, you can move on to fine tuning

I think your saying a suggested key thought here is to initiate that movement by pushing down with the left foot, the 'step on the accelerator' idea. Personally that doesnt work as well for me as firing my right hip and stepping off my right foot whilst feeling like my back stays facing to the target and feeling those arms get pulled downwards

Butthe key is finding that one thought/move that allows the lower body to lead, the weight to shift, hips unwind and arms/shoulders staying loose and tension free

[slater170]

Re: Curing OTT

i have always been a slicer but im slowly curing my OTT swing by constantly practicing the pump drill.
i use it in my pre shot routine and recently i have been mainly hitting nice draws.

[takinitdeep]

Re: Curing OTT

I like the pump drill and have used it for years, since it looks a little odd as a preshot routine, you might want to visualize the handle of the club coming down the target line or a little left or right, whatever is comfortable. When using this visualization, keep the hands soft so the release can happen.
This visualization does several things, it keeps you down and through the shot, it forces you to have hands ahead leading into impact, and, it takes all the mental thinking down to a minimum.
I even use it on pitches.
The only club I tend not to use this thought is with the driver, for driver, I like to just take it slow to finish the backswing; most slicers never truly feel the hinge or finish the backswing which has them coming either across the ball/impact with open clubface or they lift up and out of the shot because they know they are lacking power.
Hope this helps.

[slater170]

Re: Curing OTT

I like the pump drill and have used it for years, since it looks a little odd as a preshot routine, you might want to visualize the handle of the club coming down the target line or a little left or right, whatever is comfortable. When using this visualization, keep the hands soft so the release can happen.
This visualization does several things, it keeps you down and through the shot, it forces you to have hands ahead leading into impact, and, it takes all the mental thinking down to a minimum.
I even use it on pitches.
The only club I tend not to use this thought is with the driver, for driver, I like to just take it slow to finish the backswing; most slicers never truly feel the hinge or finish the backswing which has them coming either across the ball/impact with open clubface or they lift up and out of the shot because they know they are lacking power.
Hope this helps.

since building it into my preshot routine my swing has improved massively so its staying in there! lol