Leverage

[ilang]

I am quite a small person(5'4"),i had a lesson years ago with Eddie Whitcombe the ex Ryder cup player,about the same size as me.He was then the pro at Chigwell golf club in Essex,England.He said to me that a small person has more leverage than a tall person.He never explained to me exactly what he meant.I use to hit the ball fair distances,out driving some 6 footer's. Anyone can explain the dynamics of this statement?An engineer maybe#.

[kbp]

Re: Leverage

I don’t think I can explain the statement. Taller players would seem to have longer "levers" relative to doing the work of moving the golf ball with a club. That said there are plenty of long hitting small players. Proper technique and flexibility going a long way relative to size alone.

I have also noticed in attending events on the PGA Senior Tour there is a predominance of tall players across the board. There are exceptions, of course, but it’s noticeable that a lot of the Senior Tour players out there are taller than average. I believe this is because the physical limitations of age in hitting the golf ball a long distance can be offset, to some degree, by the inherent mechanical advantage of being larger in stature.

[ilang]

Re: Leverage

Thanks K.B.P.Yes maybe Eddie was trying to boost my confidence.Well i did get down to a low handicap and was the smallest club champion ever.I am still playing good golf at 65 years old.My ambition is to beat my age.I realize i might have to still be playing at 95 to do this .I keep you posted in 2036.
Cheers Ilang.

[slater170]

Re: Leverage

Thanks K.B.P.Yes maybe Eddie was trying to boost my confidence.Well i did get down to a low handicap and was the smallest club champion ever.I am still playing good golf at 65 years old.My ambition is to beat my age.I realize i might have to still be playing at 95 to do this .I keep you posted in 2036.
Cheers Ilang.

hi ilang
i stand at 5'9" and i played a threeball on sunday with 2 wiry 6 footers and outdrove there drivers with my 3 wood.
we all have roughly the same handicaps.

[BrianW]

Re: Leverage

hi ilang
i stand at 5'9" and i played a threeball on sunday with 2 wiry 6 footers and outdrove there drivers with my 3 wood.
we all have roughly the same handicaps.

Hi Slats,

Yes, Kpb did say that technique was important and I think that's correct. You must have it.

I don't believe leverage is much to do with it though, a longer arm will produce more circular motion if rotated at the same speed. This backs up the comment regarding Seniors. Seniors will loose flexibility and coil, the taller ones will still be able to achieve reasonable distance through their longer arms though.

[jambalaya]

Re: Leverage

There is no question that tall players have greater leverage. That is just physics. Club head speed and timing have a lot to do with hitting the ball far too. Just think of the huge arc that someone who is 6'-6" is going to have. But it is difficult to consistently time shots when a club head has to travel that great a distance.

[BrianW]

Re: Leverage

There is no question that tall players have greater leverage. That is just physics. Club head speed and timing have a lot to do with hitting the ball far too. Just think of the huge arc that someone who is 6'-6" is going to have. But it is difficult to consistently time shots when a club head has to travel that great a distance.

I don't believe leverage is anything to do with it (Is it?) Leverage relates to the mechanical advantage created through a lever bearing on a fulcrum. It is the speed generated through circular motion that gives the longer arm the advantage (I think)

[jambalaya]

Re: Leverage

Your right but a longer lever creates more power or leverage. Try prying something with a 3 foot lever then try again with a 6 foot lever.

[BrianW]

Re: Leverage

Your right but a longer lever creates more power or leverage. Try prying something with a 3 foot lever then try again with a 6 foot lever.

You are absolutely correct Jamb, that's what happens with a lever, it creates a mechanical advantage. But a longer persons arm in a golf swing is not creating leverage, it's different than that of a lever, it is more like the spoke on a wheel, it travels faster at the edge as the wheel gets bigger.

[ilang]

Re: Leverage

Thanks Jam & Brian.You might have both hit on something.Jam mentions 3ft & 6ft levers.But if you take the 6ft lever and place the fulcrum at the most ineffective point.And place the fulcrum at the most effective place on the 3ft lever.Then the 3ft lever then has the greater leverage.Perhaps the pro meant my hands become the fulcrum of the leverage ,being closer to the ball.The most effective position in the leverage.I might give Woosie a call,see what he think's.
Cheer's

[bill reed]

Re: Leverage

hi
i think its the same when using a driver with diffrent length shafts, short shafts you tend to put it where you want more than with longer shafts, and really long shafts like 50 inches hit the ball miles but hit it all over the place too.
longer can hit longer but not as straight.
its also harder to swing fast with really extra long club, try swing the flag sometime and see how fast you swing it.
bill

[BrianW]

Re: Leverage

Thanks Jam & Brian.You might have both hit on something.Jam mentions 3ft & 6ft levers.But if you take the 6ft lever and place the fulcrum at the most ineffective point.And place the fulcrum at the most effective place on the 3ft lever.Then the 3ft lever then has the greater leverage.Perhaps the pro meant my hands become the fulcrum of the leverage ,being closer to the ball.The most effective position in the leverage.I might give Woosie a call,see what he think's.
Cheer's

Leverage transforms a large force into a small force or a small force into a large force depending on the length of the lever and the position of the fulcrum. I think it was Archimedes that said "Give me a long enough lever and I could lift the earth". Anyway, you don't lever a golf ball you swing at it.

Jeez! I wish I had not started this

[jamesh]

Re: Leverage

I don't believe leverage is anything to do with it (Is it?) Leverage relates to the mechanical advantage created through a lever bearing on a fulcrum. It is the speed generated through circular motion that gives the longer arm the advantage (I think)

I was watching a clip with Tiger Woods - and he was talking about his basketball player friends and golf. He said when those guys learn to strike the ball well, and given their size and leverage - they will be able to out drive him easily.

I think size does have an advantage. Here is a quote from Woods, and I have attatched the link. This is an interesting discussion...by the way I am 6'2 and a small asian senior was blowing them by me the last round out - there is no substiute for proper technique.


Q. Following you were saying about younger players, I know you were a bit staggered by Bubba Watson and what he can achieve. Now you're 30, and I say this with the greatest respect, are you feeling old when you see these youngsters coming up?
TIGER WOODS: Not yet. I can still move the ball a little bit. There will come a point in time where I won't be able to do that anymore and guys will be pounding it by me all the time.
That's like I said earlier to some of the guys here. They asked me about how the game has changed. Well, I'm 6 foot, and if you look at the Top 5 players in the world, Goosen and I are the same height but generally of the top players, I'm short at 6 foot. If you look at Palmer and Player and Nicklaus's generation, I'm 6 foot, I'd be tall. The game has become bigger. The guys are all 6 3 and above. Bubba is 6'3 1/2". He's a big guy. Hence, you have the leverage, you have the physical advantages to hit the ball further, and that's where the game is going. Again every course has gotten bigger and faster and golf is no exception.


Link
http://www.dubaidesertclassic.com/mo...rticle&sid=286

[BrianW]

Re: Leverage

I still don't get it though, even if Tiger says it.

Maybe it's a term some of them use, I guess you can kind of understand what it means. Although in Ilang's original post he said that Edie Whitcombe suggested shorter players had more leverage, Tiger suggests taller players have it.

I still think the advantage with a taller player is circular motion. maybe someone else has a better understanding of the term.

[jambalaya]

Re: Leverage

A lever can be considered an arm rotating around a fixed point. A pully or a wheel and axle are also levers. A force is applied to the arm and can be applied anywhere on the arm. The force applied at the point in question transfers a force to the end of the arm the magnintude of which is determined by the distance between the moving end and point the at which the force is applied and of course the amount of force applied. If you attached the club to an axle and let it spin around rather than attach a wheel it is the same thing, a lever. If you let the club head run into a ball it will apply a force to it. The longer the club, the more force when turning at a constant speed. We could probably considere the fixed point on a golfer as the center of the spine at the base of the neck. I don't know if that is accurate but it doesn't matter for our purposes. The distance from that point to the end of the club is going to be longer for tall people thus more leverage. The length of the club, length of the arms, etc., all play a part of course.

Anyway, that is the way I see it.