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Golf Swing Instruction - Be prepared to read. This is a long one. Sorry.

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  • Golf Swing Instruction - Be prepared to read. This is a long one. Sorry.

    Ok. Time to possibly stir things up a little, or possibly time to find out that I have been "reading/listening wrong" over the last 3 years.

    The more I find out about my swing and this game, the more I am coming to realise that a lot of golf instruction is misleading. Even from some of the "best".

    Why is it that seemingly able bodied men and women with an athletic nature and natural hand-eye coordination turn to stiff wrecks when swinging a golf club to a ball? My answer? Because we have been fed "tips" which do not add up to logical flowing movement and keep us hunting for other "tips" to correct the "tips" we already have. I'm sure you all know the question.......... "How can I do THAT if I'm doing THAT???!!!" It all leads to a horribly murdered rhythm and no swing through the ball at all.

    I have stumbled upon two such instances which I wish to share with the forum, and welcome any feedback. Now, the main reason I feel it my duty to post this is because I am now hitting the ball better and more consistently than ever before, am able to hit it high, low, draw and fade at will (I was an incurable high, weak slicer) and all because I "listened" to my body and dared to try it different. I have spent 3 years trying to "improve" my golf swing via conventional methods and, quite franklly, experienced moments of improvement and months of going backwards. The same for many I suspect. Up until 2 weeks ago I couldn't hit the ball any better than when I was 15. I'm now 26. But I hit the ball a lot better before I embarked on the quest for improvement 3 years ago.

    Here goes:

    1. The grip.

    I wish to quote none other than Mr D Leadbetter from his multi-million selling book "Faults and Fixes"................ "and keep it (the left thumb for right handers) short on the shaft. In terms of creating leverage in your swing, a shorter thumb - as opposed to one that is fully extended - is much more effective".

    What twaddle. Go and get a golf club. Now, with the club held off the ground, grip it with the shaft running from at/just above the last joint of your little finger down to the first joint of your index finger as is taught by Leadbetter and many others. Now hold the club out infront of you with only your left hand so that the back of your hand is facing the ceiling (club horizontal infront of you). Remember, keep that thumb "short". Now, if those of you reading this instruction of the grip placement and short left thumb are "understanding" it the same as me, my guess is that the club does not get to a 90 degree angle to your arm, regardless of how much you try to cock your wrist. You can even pull on the shaft with your other hand to help it if you like. You won't get to 90 degrees or beyond without the grip moving in your hand/fingers. That's part one. Remember that.

    Now think of all the professional golfers you've seen who are big hitters with apparently little effort who actually get the angle between club and arm PAST 90 degrees in the downswing. Clubhead lag.

    My experience tells me that almost all professionals manage it. and we're all trying to achieve it. But with this poor instruction? Never possible. We just tried to physically cock our wrist and couldn't even reach 90 degrees, so what's going to happen in the downswing to suddenly make that happen? Nothing. We won't get maximum leverage with this left hand grip. We'd need to remove a few wrist bones to do it.

    Now try the left hand grip but placing the club firstly along ALL of the joints between your palm and your finger i.e. right along the base of your fingers. Now wrap the fingers round the club and bring the grip up with your fingers to settle on the underside of the heel of your hand. Now we get to the intersting bit. Place your thumb along the right side of the shaft and make it LONG. If you've done it right you'll not get the club in your plam but still in the fingers (interestingly enough, you should feel the club still run across the base if the little finger to the first joint of the index finger, just not as pronounced) and it'll be a tight fit without squeezing it.

    Now at this stage you might be thinking that the rest of your hand feels very much "on top" of the grip, unless you already have a slightly strong grip. This is the feeling I'm looking for. You may also be thinking that you can see all four knuckles on your left hand. True, but now ground the club at address. The nature of this grip means that if you've been leaning the shaft forward at address (delofting the club) you'll see not one knuckle on your left hand.........bad. Bring your left hand into the middle of your stance forming the triangle between your shoulders and hands on the grip (you can put your right hand on it now if you haven't already done so. Just match up the v's). Now you can only see 2 knuckles and the clubface is square. Perfect

    This serves two functions. a) it squares up your shoulders. I didn't even know I had open shoulders at address until I did this (slicing fix that not one pro has ever picked up on), and b) it returns the club to its natural loft at address. All good. Now for that magic illusive bit that's got all of us performing all sorts of dodgy moves in our swing. The lag.

    As we did earlier, hold the club out infront of you, back of the hand facing the ceiling, club horizontal. Keep that thumb LONG. Now cock your wrist. With this grip you can now get the club past 90 Degrees without the aid of pulling the shaft with your right hand. Now simulate the forces at work in the golf swing by pulling on the shaft with your right hand. I can get the angle well past 90 degrees, and the long thumb right of centre is helping it, not restricting it. The amount of angle produced only stops when your thumb cant go any further back. Add to that absolutely no movement of the grip in your palm and you save money too because it will mean the disappearence of that annoying hole that appears on your glove at the heel of your hand...................all caused by poor instruction on the golf grip.

    If you decide to take this to the range, you'll find that the need for thinking about cocking the wrists in the backswing is removed. Just keep them soft. Physics does the rest. I saw my lag improve immediately and I'm now starting to lead the clubhead into the ball, rather than releasing early. I'm hopefully getting a video camera for Christmas so I'll post it one here if this is at all unclear!!!!!!!!!!!!

    2. Hit Down on the Ball

    What? Look CLOSELY at this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqsf4bEBF-Q

    It's difficult to see unless you can slow it down further, but you will notice that at impact, Tigers hands have reached the bottom of their arc before the clubhead impacts the ball, and are even coming slightly up toward the follow-through. Yet the clubhead is travelling on a slightly decending path to get the ball-turf strike.

    Much like the 18-wheel truck turning the corner, the cab has has gone past but the trailer goes past the same point in the road, only later.

    My point is that because of the added length of the golf club and the fact that the hands are leading the clubhead, the hands will be at, or even just past the lowest point in the swing whilst the clubhead is still traveling downward. For me "hit down on the ball" does not conjure up this image. It conjures the familiar upper body lunge that we all see at our local ranges with huge divots flying everywhere and the ball popping up higher not lower. It's a horrid mess.

    As a result of the better leverage form the above described grip, I am slowly losing my upper body lunge, keeping my height through the swing and almost feeling as though I'm hitting slightly up, but now we all know that the clubhead is still moving down if we have the correct lag. I'm hitting lower, longer and stronger than ever and it's controllable.

    In all honesty, it's up to you whether you want to try this for yourselves, or just laugh at me because I've spent an hour putting this together and haven't made any sense to you!!! But as God is my witness, these are the things that have transformed my swing in the past fortnight from a choppy weak slice, to a penetrative workable trajectory.

    Be well.

  • #2
    Re: Golf Swing Instruction - Be prepared to read. This is a long one. Sorry.

    Google Ben Witter or go to TGC discussion board and under helping hackers see his power point presentation Physics presentation.
    You are right and I have believed for many years that Lead was merely repeating Hogans short thumb theory which worked for Hogan but no one else.
    I really like your post.
    Tiger does actually hit down with a vengence but his lag is so severe that his body is rising or I should say moving to his left side way before his clubhead strikes the ball so it looks in fast motion like a sweep but it is definitely hitting down on the ball.
    Keep up the good thoughts/thinking; a long time ago, I struggled severely in ball striking, went to several "pro's", and then realized myself that my problem was my grip. I can now and frequently do play with various grip types just to prove to myself that any grip will work if you understand how to apply it. For example, one day I will play with a vardon, the next time with an interlocking, another day with a ten finger grip. Its not the type of grip, its how you use the fingers, hands, wrists, and so on.
    Cheers.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Golf Swing Instruction - Be prepared to read. This is a long one. Sorry.

      hi neil
      great post mate
      i have been as guilty as any newbie in trying to take on too many tips and as a result over the past 2 years i have twice ended up in a mess!
      i too tried leadbetters short thumb tip and it was no use whatsoever!
      i cleared my mind and have learnt to be more discerning about what advice works and what doesnt and learning how to build my OWN swing
      i really worked on getting a solid repeatable grip (exactly as you described) and with some help from shootin (anti-sway drills) and ian hancock (pump drill) i have got a really nice solid swing going. and thats all im going to focus on.
      at the moment that swing is giving me 230/240 yds straight/draw off the tee and thats good enough for me.
      im not going to fall for the latest get more power tip and screw things up!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Golf Swing Instruction - Be prepared to read. This is a long one. Sorry.

        Great news, slater-everyone will find what works for them and golf is alot more fun when you feel comfortable with your swing.
        In the past I sensed some frustration but now you sound great.
        Play well-over there.
        What's the weather like?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Golf Swing Instruction - Be prepared to read. This is a long one. Sorry.

          Originally posted by takinitdeep
          Great news, slater-everyone will find what works for them and golf is alot more fun when you feel comfortable with your swing.
          In the past I sensed some frustration but now you sound great.
          Play well-over there.
          What's the weather like?
          hi takinitdeep
          had a lot of rain recently but the temperature is now dropping so we have frosty mornings.
          i feel i have reached level 1 with my swing and its something i know i can trust now just got to try and improve all aspects of the game putting bunker play at the moment my driving,chipping amd short pitching is sweet.
          you rightly detected the fustration unfortunately for me mediocrity is not an option!
          thanks for the encouragement!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Golf Swing Instruction - Be prepared to read. This is a long one. Sorry.

            Neil,

            Great post.

            You are obviously starting to "play" with your swing and trying to understand your swing.

            Be vigilent and don't give up there are a lot of tips/misconceptions/shackles out there.

            Charles

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Golf Swing Instruction - Be prepared to read. This is a long one. Sorry.

              Good Post. I learned a long time ago that you could pay big bucks for the best instructor available, but unless his/hers swing instruction fit what the student's body could accomplish, it was a waste of both time, and money. Same goes for the person who reads more than one golf instruction book, then tries to take different swing tips (methods) from various authors, and try make them work as one for their own swings. Won't happen. For instruction to work well, the instruction, and student need to be on the same page with each other.

              Is the reason Tiger has few (if any) equals on the golf course due to his various instructors through out his career? I would say yes to some extent, but it is mostly because of is his own practice ethics, and his desire to be the best, that makes all those instructors look good. Tiger has said many times that he wants to own his own swing.

              Here's something else to think about. I don't know how high the world golf rankings go (1000?) but if all these fixes, secrets, "save 5-7 strokes with my method" actually worked, don't you think that guy ranked 500 or worse would be getting better with all these easy swing methods? You'd think at least one these many swing instruction methods would work for them. Why hasn't this #500 golfer gone to the instructor who claims to have all the answers?

              The one thing that turned my game around many years ago was being told to learn a grip that allowed me to swing the club easily, while knowing where the club head was at, and what it was doing during my in to out, to back in down swing. In other words find, and learn my own swing. Also, knowing what, in my own swing, caused various ball flights was imperative.

              Just my thoughts......GJS

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Golf Swing Instruction - Be prepared to read. This is a long one. Sorry.

                A good read.

                My two cents worth - I started playing better when I stopped worrying about how my swing and I looked to others.

                Have a great Christmas.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Golf Swing Instruction - Be prepared to read. This is a long one. Sorry.

                  Great Post,

                  I do like success stories, good to Slats is doing ok now, just don't forget you will need to keep practicing the same thing for at least another three months even if you think you have cracked it.

                  Which leads me to this post, the problem with Golf is "TRYING TO RUN BEFORE YOU CAN WALK" Golf is a very slow learning process and I would dare to say for a complete novice to start, two years would be a realistic target to get the basics down, the GRIP of course being the first and always the most important, this is after all where we connect to the club, many top pros have many grips but the underlining point is what works for them or you.

                  There are many types of human, some visual learners, some feel, many simply mimic there playing partners etc..........

                  You are correct once the fundimentals are down in the best possible way for the build, height,bulk of an individual etc (Daly, Mo, Couples,Tiger, Me....are all different) then we should let go and play Golf, I am guilty of being over analythical and always searching for that better swing, when really if you listen to Tiger or Jack they talk many times about "empty head", I have many times put up threads explaining my thoughts about this and the success I have had with it, and personally agree that this is the best way to play Golf once you have done the hard work with the basics.


                  Just my penny.

                  Ian.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Golf Swing Instruction - Be prepared to read. This is a long one. Sorry.

                    Hi Neil,

                    A good in-depth and interesting post. Also good responses from members here.

                    I would just like to give a differing view on the long left thumb. I have gained a lot from the teachings of Nick Bradley and in particular his book "The 7 Laws of the Golf Swing" Nick has an excellent section relating to the grip and how it should respect the bio-mechanics of the body. In it he talks about the long left thumb, that when extended down the shaft it is one of the most common and destructive grip flaws.

                    He reasons that the left hand and wrist act as shock absorbers through impact as the club strikes the turf. When the left thumb is in the correct position and short, the tendons in your hands have the ability to flex, bounce and withstand this force. However, when the thumb is in an elongated position the tendons in the left hand become stretched, taught and susceptible to injury, especially if the club is held tightly (an automatic knock-on effect of the long left thumb).

                    He also suggests that the long left thumb damages the pincer or trigger formation that should be created with your left index finger and thumb, thereby forfeiting control and power during the swing. Thirdly it forces the grip away from the fingers and into the palm of the left hand.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Golf Swing Instruction - Be prepared to read. This is a long one. Sorry.

                      Gene Sarazin gripped with his left thumb completely off the club?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Golf Swing Instruction - Be prepared to read. This is a long one. Sorry.

                        Originally posted by takinitdeep
                        Gene Sarazin gripped with his left thumb completely off the club?
                        Sorry, I don't follow. Is that a recommendation?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Golf Swing Instruction - Be prepared to read. This is a long one. Sorry.

                          Very interesting thread I thought I was the only would be golfer who reads all the tips and watches loads of instruction videos. Im forever trying different grips ,stances and anything else what comes up in the world of insruction. The main trouble with this is I find myself changing things half way through a competition and usually cock it all up.I think i will take a leaf out of your book and just try to find a swing of my own. Being a senior golfer my body cannot get in the positions the instructors want.I have tried several and Ithink they all teach from the same manual.

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