ladies golf

[bill reed]

Re: ladies golf

hi
i see M Wie is back playing against the men in next weeks PGA.
think it more about Nike seeing merchandising than golf.
cheers
bill

[vp27519]

Re: ladies golf

Bill a valid point considering she is not playing all that well - anywhere.

Now I can say this and not offend anyone - cos I am a girl. She should not be playing on the men's tour. I think some blokes should come and start playing on the womens tour...!

Heard an interesting comment a couple of weeks ago whilst watching the golf on the ol pay tv. It was Wie can't play for her college team as she is a pro.

I didn't know that you could only play College golf if you were an amateur.

I think she has done herself a disservice by turning pro so early in her life. I reckon she has been poorly advised. Wie is missing out on alot of experience playing against her peers.

[LowPost42]

Re: ladies golf

I disagree - Wie was playing quite well last week. She 'inadvertently' forgot to sign her scorecard and was DQ'd - but playing brilliant golf.

Now - WTF can she 'learn as she plays against the men' (her quote, not mine)?

Obviously she can see how long hitters manage the course. But it won't matter now, really, as LPGA courses are setup to cater to the average LPGA distances and abilities (and M. Wie has more distance than the average lady).

It's a 100% publicity stunt - and the trigger is pulled by the Tournament Sponsor (she is playing on a sponsor's exemption/invite).

If you can't get a star, get a sideshow, I guess. Perhaps they're trying to gain the recognition as the Tournament associated with Wie's first made cut against the men. What a media storm that would be...

[vp27519]

Re: ladies golf

It is a pity that her marker didn't pick up that she hadn't signed her card. Interesting that is...

Before playing on the mens tour she should start winning on her own tour.

[bill reed]

Re: ladies golf

hi
if it was Annika Sorenstam or Lorena Ochoa that were invited to play in a mens tournament then i would have no problem with it as both women have proved them self on the ladies tour over the last few years. and i think both could give a good account of them selfs in a mens tournament, but M Wie has not yet proved she is in the top 100 women as she has not played consistently in any match to date and has pulled out of a few games because of a bad score.
if M Wie does not finish in the top 3 in next months women tour then she will lose her card to play in the LPGA and have to go back to school to try and get her card back. i think she has to do what Nike tell her as they have invested so much money in the "Tiger" of womens golf.
its refreshing to see Ping and Callaway not ramming Lorena and Annika down our throats at every turn the way Nike does with Wie.
cheers
bill

[LowPost42]

Re: ladies golf

Bill, I'm not sure why you think it's Nike.

Nike and Sony gave her a ton of money, yep. They're also giving Tiger a ton of money, as well as athletes from other sports.

The media and tournament sponsors (not player sponsors) are ramming Wie down our throat.

[bill reed]

Re: ladies golf

hi lowpost
her father had said that Nike had set her tournaments for the year and had said she would play in another two mens events that was at the start of the year. she hurt her wrist and missed one she was to play in.
it seems that Nike has promotion dates set and release dates for there clothing range to co inside with M Wie playing in mens events.
it dont matter to them is she plays well only that she is only every sports page.
i do feel sorry for her as she has had to play in competitions she feels she is not ready for.
don't know is you seen the report from David Leadbetter and how he had advised her not to play in the pga but work on her game so she was ready for the Canadian in August where she has to finish at least 3rd to keep her card but then said she had contractual agreement so had to play.
Nike has invested a lot of money in her as now seem to want some of it back and as she is working hard at Stanford and she is not so much in the golfing front page as she is studying more than playing. but playing against the men put her on the front page and also advertise Nike but does nothing to help her as she is now under so much pressure to put in a good performance.
i really do think if she had the choice she would not play and work on the more important game that comes up in a few weeks.
don't get me wrong I'm not putting M Wie down i think she is very talented and could turn out to be a wonderful player in time but just now she is not in the top 50 womens golfer and she will only get there by playing against them and not against the men, the only reason she is playing against men is so Nike can recoup some of the money it has invested in her.
cheers
bill

[LowPost42]

Re: ladies golf

OK - I had no idea about the contractual stuff; my mistake (please forgive me).

Now, lets assume that she agreed that for her money from Nike she would play in tournaments - then yes, she needs to play them. Perhaps her contract bars her from stating that she's simply playing because of the contract (hence the 'I want to learn from the men' line we always hear). However, I gotta tell you when I sign a contract for someone to do work for me, I certainly do not feel obligated to pay the agreed upon price if they're not doing the agreed upon work!

Is Nike the bad guy for adding a 'we set your schedule' clause? No. The bad guy is Pa Wie for allowing Michelle to sign it without augmenting it.

She didn't seem to have an issue with it when they cut her her first endorsement cheque... in the words of Han Solo "Suck it up, fuzzball." She sold out to the almighty dollar (and I can't think of anyone who wouldn't have), but you have to pay the piper sometime - and her time is now.

[bill reed]

Re: ladies golf

hi lowpost
i think it more that she does not really compete with the men. or she had not so far.
it sort of makes the whole thing a bit of a farce.
if she was playing better than she has been and was up there at the top of the womens game then i think there might be more off a case for her doing it.
cheers
bill

[LowPost42]

Re: ladies golf

Women vs men is a complete farce - I don't care what the reason is. There are plenty of female golfers who could whup my arse on the course (and I've been outscored by quite a few).

Even at the top level, if it's not a measure of raw strength (biophysics say women cannot compete without the help of drugs) then there's really no competition. What I don't get is that from a distance perspective, M. Wie is longer than some men on the PGA Tour - guys who have made the cut. So what is her problem? I daresay that by playing against the men, she's more or less given herself permission to focus on things other than her golf game while on the course. At her level, it's not ballstriking that keeps you out of the money - it's your ability to focus (or lack thereof).

[bill reed]

Re: ladies golf

hi lowpost
i think your so right in saying its about focus and it must also be so hard to keep focused with all the bad publicity and the mixed reaction she seems to get too.
she is only 18 and i think at time badly advised.
one of the players Jay Williamson whos playing in the game next week said it was a joke that M Wie was playing and when M Wie was asked about his comments she said she had no idea who he was but did not know the names many of the players that were playing at the Reno-Taho.
i also think the the courses are set up a bit harder with deeper rough and tighter fairway than in the womens game.
i remember Laura Davies saying she could not live with the top 200 men playing on there courses and she was one of the longest drivers in the womens game at the time. she also said she often played her caddy and he would often beat her.
cheers
bill

[LowPost42]

Re: ladies golf

You're totally spot on - the LPGA tracks are easier by comparison - look at the setups and the LPGA is often getting almost twice the available fairway at some stops. They obviously play shorter due to the shorter-hitting nature of the women; but when Ochoa and Wie start bombing drives like they do, do you think the LPGA will be moving to longer setups? Or will Ochoa and Wie simply be able to dominate with more length than the average lady?

[bill reed]

Re: ladies golf

hi lowpost
for a while Laura Davies was a good 30 to 50 yards longer than almost all the women she played against about 10 years ago and was hitting drives of 280 to 300 drives.
i think Ochoa has a good all round game to go with her long drives and seemed to have good course management too. for the year she has 6 times won with the total of -107 for the 6 matches she has won. that is an amazing total of under par score for the 6 wins she has had this year.
HSBC -20
Safeways international -22
Kraft Nabisco -11
Corona -25
Ginn open -19
Sybase -10

Ochoa had won 21 times since she started in 2004 and has a total score for the 21 wins at -335 that is an average of -15 for the 21 games she has won.

Michelle Wie has played 6 times this year with scores off
finished 72nd
missed cut
finished 24th
missed cut
finished 46th
and last week disqualified.
M Wie in now 224th in the womens list.

cheers
bill

[LowPost42]

Re: ladies golf

Don't misunderstand me - the LPGA needs to push their winners - Ochoa (the true 'Tiger' of the LPGA), Creamer, Pressel, and the korean girls that seem to win every other week.

[bill reed]

Re: ladies golf

hi lowpost
both Paula Creamer and Annika have said the cant understand what M Wie has turned down the chance to play a major ie the British open at Sunningdale to play in a mens match that no matter what result she gets there wont count to her getting her card for next year.
both Paula and Annika can't believe she turned down a chance to play in a womans major.
i does seem strange if she finished in the top 20 it could make the difference is she had a card to play next year.
i think womens golf is stronger this year than it has ever been not only the Asia players but also the Scandinavian players and the Mexican and the USA has a really strong team of women and there Solheim team this year was great and so was the Europe team.
cheers
bill