Finally My swing...Now tear it apart at will

[edshaw]

Re: Finally My swing...Now tear it apart at will

Shamed:
You have been born with everything
you need to become a fine golfer. It
is just a matter of dedication, work,
and getting on the right track; easily
said, not so easily done.
I want to point out to you something
about the way clubs are designed, and
this something applies to the short irons.
You say you are using an eight in that
video? OK, seven or eight through wedge
are the short irons.
.................................
Place your eight next to your three. A
Three is a long iron. Note that if you let
your arms hang naturally, and do not try
to adjust the position of your hands to
adapt to the club, then the eight iron
is going to rest on the ground further back
in the stance than the three. Observe your
irons carefully and note that, as the numbers
get higher, the clubhead lays on the ground
progressively further back in the stance.
......................................
I don't want to muddy the water, here,
but have to tell you, if drawing the ball is
a goal, learning to take the ball on the
inside path is going to help. The inside
path is more easily tapped into deeper
in the swing path. And, the short irons
are not the clubs to learn the draw with;
too much backspin domination going on
with them. Best club to work on the draw
with is the three wood off a tee.

[Shamed04]

Re: Finally My swing...Now tear it apart at will

thanks guys ive been doing alot of work at the range and i can deff. see a difference...I hit most of the greens this weekend when i played and had a total of 6 birdie opportunities..ill try and get a new video once it warms back up in the next week....

[Neil18]

Re: Finally My swing...Now tear it apart at will

OK Shamed04. Here's my personal viewpoint on your videos. Sorry it's long, but as this is a game of paradox, it seems to take quite a while to describe simple thoughts to someone in an accurate manner!

I don't think you've got far to go until you achieve what others will refer to as a desirable swing. As best I can tell from the vids you have a good flow and rhythm and very good flexibility between your top and bottom half. You're rhythm looks quick, but if anyone's got a problem with that, tell them to speak to Chad Campbell or David Howell.

Your swing has some startling comparisons to my own old swing. I cannot disagree with any of the comments posted so far, but I'm hoping that by talking about my improvements, I can relate to where you might like to go with yours, by describing what has worked for me. And for comparison purposes, I am 5ft 11ins and just under 12 stone, so probably not too far from your build (but probably a little flabbier due to ageing!)

It's difficult to know where to begin as so many good observations have already been made on your swing in this thread, but a lot of any problems with ball striking you have is down to your undeniable desire to hit the ball a long way. I used to do it. Probably 90% of us amateur golfes are guilty of it. "I'm gonna launch myself at this from the top to create as much speed as possible and hit this a damn long way!". We obviously don't think in these literal terms, but it probably best describes our attitude.

I quite like your posture. Looks balanced and solid. Perhaps all I would say is to stand slightly taller. This will raise your hands and bring you slightly closer to the ball. In terms of positions, that's all I'll say. I don't often talk of positions in the swing any more as I have learned that you can't contrive to reach positions in the swing and maintain the necessary fluidity for a powerful and controlled pass at the ball.

I am of the opinion that you can play good golf with the current plane of your backswing. Yes, it is a little flat, but not disastrous. Work on it if you want to.

A thing that hasn't been mentioned in any posts I've seen here, but is thought of the world over as a good way to start a backswing, is the notion of the low, wide takeaway. For me, the low wide takeaway does not promote the flowing circular motion around the body that is required. You and others are free to disagree, but your body movement away from the target looks like an effort to give yourself a really wide backswing. Which it does. It's just not needed though.

Another thing that is commonly over-looked in the low, wide takeaway that leads to difficulties in keeping spine-angle and the maintenance of steady balance (there's two ways of keeping your balance. 1. Looking like you're balanced and 2. Looking like you're gonna fall over, but you don't!), is that the lower and wider you try to keep the takeaway, the more you dip your left shoulder in the early stages of the backswing. Minimal though it is, the left shoulder dipping pulls your head and body weight forward. This is the start of losing your spine angle.

As a result of this move at the start of the backswing, you actually reach the top of your swing with your weight slightly forward of where it was at address. You can see this if you watch your head against the trees on the down-the-line view. Couple this with your (not uncommon!) wish to hit the ball a long way and hence we come to the steepened downswing. This is all still to do with weight distribution. The fact that your weight is going forward in the backswing encourages more forward weight movement in the downswing. Now we get to why, coming into impact, you're straightening up. You're body is straightening up to a) stop you from falling forward, and b) ensure that clubface meets ball. The body is, after all, trying to perform two functions. The one we conciously want (hit the ball) and the subconcious one of "don't fall over". The straightening up of your spine is also you're body's attempt to bring the arc of the clubface back in line with the ball, as the forward weight shift is moving the clubface outside the target line.

And all this caused by some well-meaning advice (admittedly even by some top coaches) of the low wide takeaway. Good advice if you drag the clubhead straight inside the line, but not if you already possess the sound knowledge of how to swing a club. You obviously do. You look the athletic type!

Sorting the myriad of problems that weight distribution causes is easier than some might think. Club-makers have cunningly designed golf clubs in such a way that the shape of the clubhead helps us determine the path along which to swing the club back. They've done this by angling the top line of the club (on irons). We could have a totally square-shaped clubface, you know. It'd do the same job. But it would be harder for our brains to identifiy the swinging motion. Use the top line of an iron to help with your backswing path. You need to swing in a circle around your body. The ball being at the apex of that circle which, when the club is in motion, will automatically represent the fastest point at which the clubhead will travel. Great! Thanks club-makers! Backswing path and fastest point for clubhead speed all sorted out by angling the top line of an iron! These guys are clever, but golfers seem to continually ignore this wonder of technology. At no point can anyone make a truly effortless, repeatable and reliable swing through the ball by trying to move (or "swing") the club in such a fashion as to have the clubhead moving in an elongated straight line though the ball to try and send the ball down the target line. If any part of a circle is broken by a period of stright-line direction, then the inate power within the circular motion is compromised.

The most obvious sporting action I can liken it to is a hammer thrower. He spins to build momentum and the velocity of the hammers head. All in a circular motion around his body At the critical point he lets it go and the hammer goes straight down the field at pace (unless he gets it wrong and launches it into the net! Call that the hammer throwers shank!). Think of letting the hammer go being at the same point as hitting a golf ball in the swing. The hammer thrower does not try to push his releasing hands in a straight line in the direction in which he wishes the hammer to fly. He just lets go at the right time. Trying to send it in a line down the field would destroy all the motion he has built up. Swing the club correctly and square clubface will meet ball on target line, travelling in intended direction. Since looking at the golf swing this way I have improved my accuracy 10-fold with additional yards in each club.

AS I see it (and experience it), the solution for you is to get your posture positionally right first (as mentioned briefly above) and then relax. Not much work involved in that bit! Now just stand as you are and feel like you're swinging the club away from the ball both back and to the inside. Try to find something that helps this picture, be it having your chin on an immoveable shelf or whatever. DO NOT LOSE HEIGHT, AND DO NOT TILT YOUR SHOULDERS FORWARD. It will probably feel like you dragging the club inside but you won't be. You'll be swinging the club away from the ball along the pre-determined line set by the clubmakers. You might have to work on not swaying away from the target as you do at the moment, but this whole exercise should help that anyway. It's a turn and a swing away from the target and the ball.

When you get to the top, you can almost do exactly as you do already but it will feel different. You won't have to fire your right hip forward because you're weight isn't going forward, hence you won't need to get your right hip back under your top half to support it (we're back to not falling over again!). You can now simply open your left hip target-bound and swing your arms freely back along the line you swung up on. When you get it right and contact the ball squarely, you'll feel that the ball contact is at the very extent (the apex) of the circular motion you have created and the pure nature of the circular motion and direction of travel will send the ball more forwards than it's ever forwarded before!

A small point on the length of your backswing: It looks long because of the low and wide takeaway, but your club doesn't actually pass parallel at the top. That's fine. If it isn't, go talk to John Daly. If you like your quick rhythm, you need only shorten the backswing as a whole by a matter of inches to be more controllable, but it'll feel like 2 feet when you try it first! Keep you're video camera or a friend handy to tell you how far back you're going! You'll be surprised!

All in all, you have the makings of a fantastic golf swing, and I hope that with the guidance provided with the responses in this thread, you'll quickly complete a wonderful journey to a swing to be proud of.

Peace.

[GoNavy]

Re: Finally My swing...Now tear it apart at will

Neil I have to say I don't agree with that bit of trying to swing the club back along the top line of the club, here is why, in most cases that will causepeople to suck the club back behind them, once that happens, out and over is the only way back down.

Lets not make this any more difficult then it needs to be, start out with the set up with a bent left wrist and straight right wrist, I know, everyone says you have to the left wrist straight or flat, it will be, just not at address. Allowing the left wrist to be bent, keeps the shoulders square at address. You start the swing by simply rotating the left arm to cause the left wrist to flatten and the right to bend, don't worry about turning the shoulder or the hips or moving your weight, just do that move, and do it smoothly. This Will put you with your wrists already starting to cock (left flat, right bent back), and the club will be parallel to the target line with the toe up, as it should be, your hands will be over the toe of the right foot, then just continue the turn to the top. The only thing I really think about in the downswing is getting my hands back to this position, then turn it on, the clubface will close, you just have to trust it. Do it in slow motion a few times you'll get the idea.

[Neil18]

Re: Finally My swing...Now tear it apart at will

I see your point Gonavy.

The way I look at it and how I use the top line in my swing is that I don't have an early wrist roll. Everything has cause and effect. For my swing, the fault of taking the club too much to the inside is about early wrist roll/cock in the wrong direction (behind the player as you said). If I were to think of a player swinging back as low and wide as a lot of people advocate, (which in my interpretation is going against the natural design of the top line of the club), then I would naturally roll my wrist/left forearm early to get the club going around the body. This results in my hands out, clubhead in - the classic inside takeaway and laid-off look at the top. For me, this queues the over-the-top move in an effort to get the clubhead matching the arc of the hands in the downswing in an effort to create lag. As the hands come down too wide/away from me, so does the club and it's "fore" left or right!

To get wrists in and clubhead outside the hands on the takeaway, I don't take my hands straight back with the clubhead further outside my hands. This would cause me to make a move which is not synonimous to creating the powerful circular motion I'm after (dipping etc), and will detach my arms from my body the further out my hands go. People can hit the ball well like this. I can't. Tried it. LOTS! £200 in range balls later and I still can't! I just found this way easier and the results more consistent.

Limiting wrists roll and taking the club away and back more toward the direction of the topline of the club still keeps the clubhead outside my hands, and promotes swinging around myself as long as I don't wrist roll too early. If I do, then I get flat and stuck. When the club then reaches parallel to the ground, I just go up to complete the backswing. It's pretty one-plane, my swing.

Totally agree with your set up comment. Cupped left wrist and flat right wrist at set up keeps the club in the middle of our bodies, so forming the neat triangle Mr Haney advocates. I like that.

I mentioned results earlier, and even I am impressed with what this way of looking at the swing has done for my game. Now, if I'm 120 yards or less I feel like I can shoot for the flag. I never had that assuredness (is that a word?!) about my swing before. I'm now more accurate than I've ever been. And accuracy is something I've never really consistently had. Not much reason for saying this really, I'm just pleased at the results (!), and it all seems natural.

Horses for courses though!

PS: I'm aware that I bang on about my swing a lot with nobody here having seen it. I'm getting a video camera for my birthday in 2 weeks so I'll post my swing on here somewhere as soon as I get the chance to film it. Hopefully it will be useful (to me too - you never know what 30 fresh pairs of eyes will see!).