Address position / Hands

[golfndawg]

Hello again folks

I have a question or maybe a comment on the setup at address-it has to do with hands distance from body-some folks say that the distance of the hands from body should be a fist width on all clubs-but shouldn't it be that no matter how far your hands are away or how close from your body at address-as long as they return to the same position at impact all sould be good? Isn't that the same as swinging on an arc?

Please correct if I am wrong

Thanks,greg

[GoNavy]

Re: Address position / Hands

The best explaination I ever got for hands from body was how I describe to get into the correct posture, stand straight with the arms extended and lower until the shaft is parellel to the ground, that distance from the body should remain, because it places the club at a 90 degree angle to the spine, then simply bend over from the hips until the clubhead is a few inches from the ground and then crack the knees to lower to the ground. This puts you into a great posture, the distance your hands are from your body will be the same as it was when standing. Not the same for everyone, this method adapts to your body build.

You may have to do this routine for awhile, but you will after awhile become acustom to the proper setup and automatically setup correctly when you address the ball. From time to time I will do it as describe above just to make sure I haven't gotten off in my setup.

[golfndawg]

Re: Address position / Hands

Thanks for the input cmays

I've played my best golf as if I feel everything I am doing is wrong- (too bent over)-(hands too far from my body).etc.

Is this a good visual?

Keep left arm connected to chest on backswing and downswing.

I have a strong grip so I feel as if I'm taking it away to the inside(it might not be to inside to some folks)but is the feeling of keeping my left arm connected-Since my hands are more away from my body I swing out to right field- and then (IMPACT) as soon as the club strikes the ball I try to swing to the left.I get confused when I hear and see comments on swing out to the target on the downswing.That has been the thing that has confused me.

[golfndawg]

Re: Address position / Hands

Thanks navy

One more thing to add - my buddy thinks I need to stand taller (I'm 6'1-220).I have tried all of that to many times-I felt so crouched I was close to hitting hosel rockets.The lower I go the better I feel.

Thanks again

[pnearn]

Re: Address position / Hands

Thanks for the input cmays

I've played my best golf as if I feel everything I am doing is wrong- (too bent over)-(hands too far from my body).etc.

Is this a good visual?

Keep left arm connected to chest on backswing and downswing.

I have a strong grip so I feel as if I'm taking it away to the inside(it might not be to inside to some folks)but is the feeling of keeping my left arm connected-Since my hands are more away from my body I swing out to right field- and then (IMPACT) as soon as the club strikes the ball I try to swing to the left.I get confused when I hear and see comments on swing out to the target on the downswing.That has been the thing that has confused me.

You sound just like me about 4 years ago

You can play that way but it will catch up with you in the end. What you have there is a stance where you are reaching for the ball and swinging very flat. Thats fine if youre a short guy with a bit of weigth but for the average joe then from there it is almost impossible not to come OTT and either pull if you get your hands turning over or push/slice depending on the loft of the club. I tried for a long time to swing to right field like that and ended up with a big hip slide trying to allow it to happen

You need to let your arms hang naturally down from your shoulders in a balanced setup - not reaching out for the ball. If you then start slicing/blocking or whatever it is because of another fault in your swing but you should try and get thay setup right and learn to swing from there because IMHO you are adopting one fault (poor setup) to compensate for another one

[jambalaya]

Re: Address position / Hands

Grab any club and grip it. Bring the hands as close to the body as you can and try to turn the hands, forward palm up. That is a blocking action.

Now move the hands out until you can rotate them, they move freely. That is what you want.

Move them as far out as you can and they will not turn and you are back into a blocking action.

When you say "turn" the hands, do you mean twist the wrists and hands together forward until the left palm is up? Are you saying that when you try to rotate them when close to the body you cannot turn your palm up? I am having a hard time seeing the blocking action you are talking about.

[golfndawg]

Re: Address position / Hands

You sound just like me about 4 years ago

You can play that way but it will catch up with you in the end. What you have there is a stance where you are reaching for the ball and swinging very flat. Thats fine if youre a short guy with a bit of weigth but for the average joe then from there it is almost impossible not to come OTT and either pull if you get your hands turning over or push/slice depending on the loft of the club. I tried for a long time to swing to right field like that and ended up with a big hip slide trying to allow it to happen

You need to let your arms hang naturally down from your shoulders in a balanced setup - not reaching out for the ball. If you then start slicing/blocking or whatever it is because of another fault in your swing but you should try and get thay setup right and learn to swing from there because IMHO you are adopting one fault (poor setup) to compensate for another one

Pretty much exactly what I do- at impact I am in a blocking stance I believe (I also was fighting a slide at one time-now I don't get much hip rotation).Anyway,since the club face is hooded or closed I get by with that 90% of the time and hit a nice little draw.(sometimes a little more hook than I want and sometimes a straight push).It all depends on if I didn't swing out enough or the face was a little more closed at impact(hook) or not closed enough (push).Like I said earlier I've tried to stand a little taller (hands closer) but it seems like the toe is down at setup.The only lesson I had last year-said I needed clubs with standard length bent 2*upright-well the cobra II's I hit they can't bend those here-I would have to send them off to cobra-I don't think that's really necessary since I play draw-I always thought if you hit the ball to the right(slice ,fade or whatever) that's when you bend them upright. <(correct me if I'm wrong on that).

Great inputs on this-thanks all

P.S. I was also told that I hold the club off <(is that the same as a delayed release?) after impact and that would make sense with the stronger grip and the face closed.

[pnearn]

Re: Address position / Hands

LOL Golndawg .. you are me I swear

I used to do the same, hit blocks straight right and then adjust by closing the club face at address to effectively get the ball going straight

A couple of things that I was doing ( from a normal, hands straight down stance) that were making this happen

1. I would way over rotate my forearms during the takeaway and roll the club face wide open. I worked hard on getting the club half way back with the club face the same angle as my spine and the club *just* in front of my hands

2. From there I would then go even flatter. All turn and no lift. So from halfway back I worked on lifting my arms up a little more and feeling my wrists set/snap naturally. Hands to the sky is how I told myself to do it. Then once I had these two moves I worked on blending them together at a good pace (not too slow) and checked the position of the club shaft and the club face at the top (club shaft over the right shoulder and club face not wide open)

3. Once I had all that I worked on making sure I didnt then spin my shoulders on the downswing - and come way OTT- I had gotten used to that with the flat swing I had before. Worked on dropping the club down from the top and feeling it come square as it came down much closer to my body than before. This article was helpful for me back then http://www.golfillustrated.com/reports/10moreyds.pdf

4. Tension. Did all this with a real light grip and didnt try to hit the ball too hard. The more tense I was the more I whipped the club open on the way back and held it open on the way down. Block

Took some hard work and a lot of times I strayed back to that reaching stance again because I got fed up but stick with it because you will improve. Deep down you will know what you are doing now isnt right - I know I did

Good luck .. let us know if you try any changes and how you get on

[BrianW]

Re: Address position / Hands

Here is a tip that helped me.

Take your address position. Now let go of the club with your right hand and let your arm hang free. If your hand hangs forward or back from the original position you will need to move forwards or backwards until your hand naturally positions in the grip. Your arms should hand naturally from the shoulders.

[GoNavy]

Re: Address position / Hands

pnearn, I here about this over rotating thing all the time, in my case I just can't over rotate if if I wanted to, without either coming out of spine angle and raising up or dropping my right shoulder or some other type of body distortion. In the backswing it is like hitting a brick wall, the arm will only rotate so much.

My guess is you are using a weak grip, hold out the left arm with your grip, if you can rotate it more then 90 degree without having to move your shoulder or bend your elbow, then the grip is simply to weak. A neutural grip allows the rotation to go 90 degrees either way, I favor a slightly strong grip, where I can only rotate it 75 or 80 degrees right and more then 90 degrees left.

The simple and repeatable way to swing, is to learn the various limits to various body parts and adjust so you can use these limits, hard to not do the same if you are going from one limit to the next, trying to float around in between, is in my mind vary hard to hit day in and day out. An example, if I want a three quarter swing, I just prevent my hips from turning, my shoulders will only turn so much, hence I have limited my backswing. If want to block the right side, I use a strong grip which prevents the clubface from ever being open, weak grips prevents the face from ever closing to block the left side.

One limit everyone is familiar with is the 90 degree shoulder turn, why do think ever one uses that, because in most people 90 degrees is the lmit, but if 80 degree is your limit then you use it, Tiger could stop at 90 if he wanted to, but he wouldn't be very consistant, so he goes to his limit 110 degrees, if go beyond ant limit some other body part is going to have to distort to allow that action. Going beyond a 90 degree shoulder turn for me would require that come out of my posture and over turn hips, but I could do it, would hit the ball worth a dam after I did it, but I could.

[pnearn]

Re: Address position / Hands

GoNavy

I was talking about over rotating the left forearm which can happen very easily if the club is yanked to the inside with the hands without involving the body

[GoNavy]

Re: Address position / Hands

GoNavy

I was talking about over rotating the left forearm which can happen very easily if the club is yanked to the inside with the hands without involving the body

This is my point you have to distort some other body part to allow that action, in this case the left shoulder had to go out and up, or the right arm had to pull in and drop, then the the left arm can now rotate more then it should, once limits are learned you can use them to your advantage.

[GoNavy]

Re: Address position / Hands

Jam:

Put yor palms together, fingers out, thumbs up and turn the back of the left hand towards the ground, the right comes with it, palm towards the grounf. That is free movent.

Bring the hands all the way into the chest and try the same. That is restricted movement. We do not want that to happen when we have a club in our hands.

GoNavy:

With posture you can not over rotate, with spine angle you can.

Sorry I have a bad habit of using the generic term posture to include spine angle, and setup in general.

[takinitdeep]

Re: Address position / Hands

Stand without a club, let your hands hang down from your shoulders-straight down-you will see a little back of the left hand and a right hand looks like you could just reach out and shake. Now that's your natural grip, just place a club there and grip it like that.
Stronger grip, just rotate left hand more to the right and the right hand more to the right, I happen to like palms facing one another.
One thing, when gripping with the left hand make sure the club lays in the fingers so you still have that pincher grip between left index finger and thumb, right hand on club just slide it up over left so crease between fat pads or life line cover the left thumb. Now thats' a grip.
Arnold has said his father taught him this grip and told him never to change it, no matter what-he never did-according to him.
Now here are the exceptions:
Sand trap: you want to open the face so grip a little more strong with left and just lay the right hand on the club.
Flop shot: You want to open the face wide open, grip a little weaker and just lay the right hand on.
Want to hit a draw: rotate the hands more to the right
Want to hit a fade: rotate the hands more to the left