The quest for a decent swing. Part 2

[Samson72]

Hi again!
I've been trying to correct the faults in my swing and here are the latest videos. It is way harder to change my swing than i thought but i feel that i´m on the right way, my hip rotation is not as late as before but I still need to work on it. Then there is my chicken wing. It will not go away. when I swing slowly in front a mirror the chicken wing is no where to be found but when I swing up to speed it returns. It would be great if you had some good exercises for me to work on.

http://www.favoritlanken.se/070217f.avi

http://www.favoritlanken.se/070217dl.avi

/Samson

[Samson72]

Re: The quest for a decent swing. Part 2

Is there no one out there with any good exercises to cure my chicken wing problem?
I already know about the head cover under the left arm pit.
I'm thankful for any tips..
/Samson

[BrianW]

Re: The quest for a decent swing. Part 2

OK, this is what I see:

You are coming over the top into the downswing producing an out to in swing.

Your left arm is bowing in the downswing through impact which will be a big power leak.

Work on holding back your shoulders at the top while your hips initiate the downswing with a more combined lateral shift with rotation. Drop your arms down so that your hands are just outside your right trouser pocket. Keep your left arm straight as you swing through impact then allow both arms to fully extend down the target line (Mirroring the end of the takeaway position) before pulling up high over your left shoulder.

I hope this is of some help.

[qassim]

Re: The quest for a decent swing. Part 2

Hi Samson72,

I'm not really qualified enough to comment on your overall swing but in relation to a drill that may help with the 'chicken wing' syndrome you may be interested in something I saw on the golf channel.

Using an iron, tee up a ball which is placed a few inches ahead of your left foot. By having the ball placed this far forward you will be forced to keep your arms extended in order to hit the ball.

Hope this helps.

[takinitdeep]

Re: The quest for a decent swing. Part 2

Chicken wing problem:
1. try to let your arms hang down from your shoulders, then, feel a little stretch down to the ball. Maintain this "tension" in your arms and swing the triangle formed with your arms, shoulders back while coiling not swaying. This is a beginning for you to stop losing the triangle
2. You want to extend on the backswing, feeling that tension in 1 above. Think wide going back.
3. Try hitting to right field, what you are doing is hitting to left field.
4. At address, you want your arms closer together than where they probably are now.
5. Try a drill where you either take an impact bag or actually hit balls by trying to hit the ball with the toe of the club, don't worry, you won't be able to do it but it ingrains the release which can only happen if both arms are working together.
6. Finally, its all about posture, balance and tempo: don't worry about distance for now, just take half swings until you can hit the ball flush using the above concepts.
There are other thoughts but imho for now.

[jambalaya]

Re: The quest for a decent swing. Part 2

Chicken wing problem:
1. try to let your arms hang down from your shoulders, then, feel a little stretch down to the ball. Maintain this "tension" in your arms and swing the triangle formed with your arms, shoulders back while coiling not swaying. This is a beginning for you to stop losing the triangle
2. You want to extend on the backswing, feeling that tension in 1 above. Think wide going back.
3. Try hitting to right field, what you are doing is hitting to left field.
4. At address, you want your arms closer together than where they probably are now.
5. Try a drill where you either take an impact bag or actually hit balls by trying to hit the ball with the toe of the club, don't worry, you won't be able to do it but it ingrains the release which can only happen if both arms are working together.
6. Finally, its all about posture, balance and tempo: don't worry about distance for now, just take half swings until you can hit the ball flush using the above concepts.
There are other thoughts but imho for now.

I saw Ledbetter talking about #4 yesterday. Try getting the elbows/arms closer together on address. It was pretty obvious on the video that arms/elbows too far apart promote the chicken wing.

[BrianW]

Re: The quest for a decent swing. Part 2

That's a good point. At address getting the insides of the elbows to point upwards so that the bottoms of the elbows point to the hips.

[Jeff Mann]

Re: The quest for a decent swing. Part 2

I think that Brian's advice in his first post is correct.

Unless you start the dowswing with a hip shift-rotation move, you will never correct your problem.

See - http://jeffmann.net/SamsonComparisonAB.jpg

Here is a comparison photo of you and Aaron Baddeley (AB) at the same point in the dowswing (when the hnads are at waist level and the hands are ahead of the toe line).

Note that AB's right elbow is jammed in his right area. Note that his clubshaft is shallowed out and cutting through his mid-right upper arm. Note that AB's hips are slightly open and leading the shoulders through the swing. In the latest issue of Golf Digest , there is an article by Leadbetter where he calls this difference in rotation of the hips relative to the shoulders the chi factor. AB has a positive chi factor. Note that AB's right heel is coming off the ground.

Note that your clubshaft is above your hands due to the OTT move. Note that your right elbow is floating far away from the right hip because your upper body moved before the lower body. Note that your clubshaft is above the hands (instead of being behind the hands) due to your OTT move. Note that your hips are still square (because they are passive) and note that you have a negative chi factor. Note that your right heel is still planted firmly on the ground because of your poor weight shift.

You will never correct the problem until you learn to shift-rotate the hips first (especially shift to the left) at the start of the downswing. If the hips shift-rotate at the start of the downswing, then your right elbow will immediately drop to the right hip area, and your clubshaft will shallow out and fall behind the hands.

This is what you need to practice - the pump it drill.

See - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMme63rleag

Watch Ben Hogan demonstrate how the hips turn first. Note how his hips turn so fast that his belt buckle faces the target. Note that his right elbow drops rapidly to his right hip area (passively) as a result of the hip shift-rotation move. Note how the weight shift causes his right heel to lift off the ground. Note how his clubshaft shallows out and comes from behind the hands.

Here is another example of the pump-it drill.

See - http://www.network54.com/Forum/72052...secret+to+golf

Note how her right elbow is jammed into the right hip area.

Now there is danger to the pump-it drill in in the sense that this demonstrator has emphasized upper body movements. You need to realise that the most important component of the pump-it drill is to mimic her hip action. If you shift-turn your hips at the start of the pump-it drill, then your right elbow will automatically jam into your right hip area. Therefore, try and mimic Ben Hogan's action when you perform this drill.

If you get the downswing hip movement corrected, then your chicken-winging problem will disappear.

Jeff.

p..s. Unfortunately, there is no sound in the Hogan video. Also, note that Hogan demonstrates an OTT move in the late part of the vdieo just before he hits a real golf ball.

[Samson72]

Re: The quest for a decent swing. Part 2

Thank you for your replies!
I really think I get it now. I stod in front of the mirror for about 30 minutes and relly focused on the tips you gave me, I just kept swinging the club and fucused on starting the swing with the hips and just let the arms drop the first inches. I stayed real loose in my hands, wrists and arms and the feeling was almost that I whipped the club through impact and it was the lower body that was leading the swing. I could do it with out a chicken wing and my arms stayed straight on the follow through. I think that I just have to get comfortable whit this feeling and hopefully I still can hit the ball. We have about 10 inches of snow right now so I have to wait until sunday before I can try it indoors and hit some balls against the net.
Thanks again.
/Samson

[Started2k3]

Re: The quest for a decent swing. Part 2

This may or may not be related to your chicken wing, but you need a Flat Left Wrist (FLW)

It is hard to see in the face on video (not high enough fps) but it looks like you are flipping your wrists at impact.

DTL video, at the top of the back swing your left wrist is quite bent. This adds to an OTT swing (fade or worse) unless you can get your wrist into the correct position during the downswing (requires talent). I try to get into a FLW position at the top of the backswing, which makes it easier to keep the FLW through to impact.

Shovelling snow here also,
Charles

[Jeff Mann]

Re: The quest for a decent swing. Part 2

Samson72

If you are doing it right, you should have a distinct feeling that the right elbow is dropping rapidly down to the right hip area, and that the right shoulder is dropping downwards (as if one wants to drop the right shoulder into the slit opening of one's right front trouser pocket). You must never have the feeling that the right shoulder is moving horizontally forward over the toe line. Remember that the hips must shift to the left before they rotate at the start of the downswing.

Started2k3

His flipping problem is related to the fact that he comes OTT and pushes through the shot, instead of pulling through the shot. That flipping problem, like the chicken winging problem, will automatically correct when he gets the downswing initiation move correct.

Jeff.

[golfseeker]

Re: The quest for a decent swing. Part 2

I agree with most of the blogs on this point. To add to this blog you could do this drill...one that my instructor has had me do prior to hitting balls. It goes something like this...."throw-the-toe" of the club at impact. In-other-words let your right hand roll over your left so that as you follow through your right hand in one top whereas your left palm is facing upwards like it is catching rain. This may cause you to hook the ball at first but you will not have the dreaded chicken wing. In fact if you do this drill properly it will be impossible to have the chicken wing effect because your left elbow will be facing your left pants pocket right after impact. Ernie Els does this beautifully.

[Jeff Mann]

Re: The quest for a decent swing. Part 2

I personally think that it is a major mistake to allow the right hand to roll over the left hand through impact as Golfseeker suggests. That active-type of crossover represents a hand crossover release. I think that the correct crossover release is a body crossover release, which is a more gradual crossover release that happens naturally if you allow your torso to keep turning through the followthrough, so that the clubshaft remains in front of the body.

See - http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/impact.htm

Look at question 2 in that section of my review.

Jeff.

[Started2k3]

Re: The quest for a decent swing. Part 2

Started2k3

His flipping problem is related to the fact that he comes OTT and pushes through the shot, instead of pulling through the shot. That flipping problem, like the chicken winging problem, will automatically correct when he gets the downswing initiation move correct.

Jeff.

Quite honestly ... chicken ... egg ... debate.

However, you do it ... FLW.

JMO.

[shootin4par]

Re: The quest for a decent swing. Part 2

come on guys, only one mention of a set up problem, you should know I am going to come in here and bust your balls for that one. Lets get with the program
right hand looks VERY VERY weak, this can cause your right shoulder to come out at address, which opens your shoulders, and I can list 20 more problems that a right hand as weak as that could cause, Look at your address from down the line, notice how much of the left thigh you can see but you cannnot see any left arm, that means shoulders are more open then your hips and this is possible the root of the OTT problems. and since your shoulders are so open, if you did nt chicken wing you would pull hook everything. Next, I would go with a little less knee flex because it is possible that is why you are not gettin your weight onto your right heal at the top of the backswing, and if your weight is not right at that point then chances of a good swing are almost completely gone. Grip, shoulders at address, and balance, fix those and without trying to change anything else, I bet your swing will look a lot better.
and if you want a drill for fixing the chicken wing then hit balls left hand only, but if you incorperate that into the set up you have now you better be aiming them feet way to the right cause you are in for a long day of pull hooks

read the first post and do the drill and report back if you would like me to further assist you, if not no worries
http://www.golf-tuition-online.com/g...-easy-way.html