Regarding the right hand drill....

[alexpfc]

..that Greg Willis has on his website. One thing I don't understand -- at what point in the backswing is it best to cock the right wrist (as he shows in the picture ) ??

[Golfbald]

Alexpfc,

Do you play right handed or left handed?

GolfBald

[alexpfc]

Golfbald, I play right handed.

[Golfbald]

Alexpfc,

If you play right handed concentrate on cocking your left wrist not your right. The right wrist cocks about 1/2 - 1 inch. The cocking or hinging motion starts when the hands pass the back foot and completes about waist high for hitters and waist high to the top for swingers. This is a simplification. The most important thing is they uncock on the downswing when the hands get to the thigh of the back leg.

GolfBald

[alexpfc]

okay, but in the picture on Greg's site, his left arm is straight in line with his shoulder and club, and his right wrist is cocked sort of back. I'm assuming this is at impact? disclaimer here - i'm basically a newbie and just trying to get down a consistent swing.

[Golfbald]

Now I know what you were looking at. Sorry.

That is not a wrist cock. At address the left arm is straight or almost straight down. The right arm must move to the left, the right wrist bends to setup this position, it is done at address. If it is not done this way your shoulders will be out of alignment and slices will result. If you are not seeing this in your swing, you are probably bringing the hands together in the middle of your body or to the right side. The left arm hangs straight down on the ball and socket joint.

If I am still off base let me know.

GolfBald

[alexpfc]

I'm having a hard time getting into that position at address. However, what I found was that I was "casting" on my downswing. I've been keeping my wrists cocked, turning my hips first, and my balls have been a lot straighter and going farther. Of course, I still hit a lousy slice and top the ball sometimes, but for the most part, a great improvement. I'm just a beginner, but I see myself getting more and more addicted to this great game! Now if I can only find more time to practice and play

[Golfbald]

Kooter,

As many as there are golfers there are grips. There is even a young man on the Nationwide tour that hits full swings crosshanded. Paul Azinger plays successfully with a weak grip. Freddy Couples has a strong grip. Each has his hands slightly different.

I learned my swing from Mike Austin and Mike Dunnaway who teach thumb next to the hand so at the top, the club comes to rest there. It is a pure hitter's swing. The lesson was intended to give beginners a starting place to develop a preshot routine, some posture and setup tips.

I enjoyed your post, most informative. My friend who has a swinger's swing uses the grip you are talking about. I would hit duck hooks all day long with the same grip, having a hitter's swing.

The basic rule is Hitters should rotate their grips and not their plane line at address, the wrist is in a free state, the right arm being dominate in the swing. Swinger's should rotate their plane line and not their grip, this gives the classic pull the rope swing, pulling with the left and turning at the bottom to get the action you speak of.

That's why this is such a great forum. There are different schools of thought, different types of swings and all angles are covered. We talk about it all. What works for someones game may not work for anothers. I love the diversity here.

Kooter,

I am curious, please try this experiment for me. Take a setup postion and stand straight up with your hands on the club in an L clubhead pointing up. Don't adjust your grip, take your left hand off the club and put grab the shaft to support it. Open your right hand slightly and extend you fingers and grip to it's natural postion. Do you finger's point straight, left or right?

Keep it in the short grass,

GolfBald

[Golfbald]

Kooter,

No offense taken, we write about what we know. Some input from a person with a classic swinger's swing is really welcome. Not too many people realize there are 2 distinct swings. Most of the golfing public learns a swinger's swing, it is most common one taught. The hitter's swing and setup are a little different. I have people tell me all the time either they don't understand where the power in my swing comes from or how I hit it so straight with "that swing".

Most swinger's play with a slightly strong grip and lock the wrist to the arm. This helps with the rotation at the bottom. Most of the high schoolers I teach use this style. I have 2 out of 8 that are learning the hitter's style. They feel more comfortable and are very right side dominate. A hitter's grip is neutral 12 o'clock and the wrist is unlocked.

Keep the good post coming,

GolfBald

[paterick]

hitters vrs swingers

crud! i thought i had it. now i am totally confused. as a beginner and being subject to influence from others i now wonder what direction to go? i wanted to play when i was a teen with my parents but they were caught up in the game themselves and didnt have time. so found thier book, (this was 1964) and read about the grip (taught by placing the club head on the ground behind the ball, taking the top of the club with your left and then reaching down with right to complete the grip. from here ya did a back swing that was just smooth and then the downswing was like pulling a rope) so i practiced and practiced by never got to play except a couple of times. then 30 years later after telling myself i hate the game i have taken it up and found all this new stuff. after two weeks on the driving range,i took alesson and the pro introduced me to what i now knowisa stronger grip. myswing was outside in, and he sujested i turn the left wrist as about. so now it seems i have a little bit of a hitters swing and a swingers swing.i have found i can adjust the outside in,butadjusting the swing plan, but this is difficult visualizing eachof the planes. i even learned to pre turn the club head to the left about 10degrees in order to preventa slice.

i feel i am moving on to another plane but want to know if experimenting with all thesed ifferenct varible is valuable. Note:each take consideralbe pains to adjust to become consistant.
pat

[Golfbald]

Pat,

Don't dispair, You are descibing some of a hitter's swing and some of a swinger's swing. The pre-turn is called a forward press. The press forward takes the bend out of the left wrist and is timed with a slight kick in of the right knee. It does set the club on plane at the begining of the swing. You are also right in feeling it does change the plane angle. After that turn into your right side, the right elbow comes to 90* and the left comes along for the ride. On the downswing, straighten your right elbow and right wrist the clubface will square up at impact. The wrist should be in a free state.

The rope pull is a swinger's swing technique. The left wrist is connected to the arm. The butt end of the club is pulled with the left side to the ball, the left shoulder ball joint being the pivot point will enable the wrists to whip closed and square the clubface.

This is a over simplification, but you must put the elements in the swing you want tot achieve. It's like a puzzle, if you mix a few peices of 2 puzzles you will never see the whole picture. Just include the elements of the swing you are trying to create.

Hope this helps,

GolfBald

[mtibt]

What about the elbows?

They are connected to everything else but the human body being what it is, there are different ways to hit the ball and well.
Please give your advice regarding the position of the left and right elbows just before and at impact and whether you advocate the hands in front of the body with the weight shift following behind. I always try to go from the ground up but sometimes "swinging", I am a swinger not a hitter, from the inside leaves my hands behind. As I point the end of the club down the target line to delay my release as long as is humanly possible.