the key to distance

[shootin4par]

Not saying I understand all of what I am bringing up, but some food for thought. Must the body turn that much, must the arms and hands move that far? Take bruce lee for example. how can a man of bruce lees size, hit with the force he did without looking like he was out of control. In martial arts exhalation upon the strike is very common. It adds energy because it is a burst of energy being released. What were to happen if we could learn how to use that in the golf swing? WOuld it be possible that the control fo the breath could produce great results and effeciency. I discussed this very topic wiht a golf mentor, thomas.

here is a two man drill, cmays this may be one of those things I may be able to teach you and I know that is rare, but then again you may know about it The point of it is not to assist in the golf swing, although some may be able to. But more so to understand the power we posses in the human body. Understand this and it may spark some curiosity to probe deeper, life is a journey to be explored

you and a partner
1. stand feet 12 inches apart and fully erect, hold arms out to your side extended in both directions with palms down

2, have partner put hand on your arm between elbow and wrist and have them push down while you try to hold the position using your muscles

3. Now lets do this again but make some adjustments
stand with arms extended at sides palms up, fingers would be pointing at 3 oclock and 9 oclock

4. now bend at the elbows to where your fingers point at 2 oclock and 10 oclock

5. Now flex your muscles while in that position breathing in

6. now keep the flex in your arms, the muscle tension. and while holding breathe out while extending your arms out straight and at the same time rotate your palms down. keep the muscle tension and push out the fingertips as far as you can

7. have friend push down again

8. report back if you like or make fun of whacky neil

My main point, can we do more and create more energy with less effort if we utilize and harness it right? Not just in golf but life as well

[tony_teetime]

Re: the key to distance

This experiment that you speak off is a good example of tension and leverage, it reminds me of gymnasts doing an iron cross on the rings. One thing for certain , you won't ever see a gymnast doing an iron cross with his palm facing up to the sky, that's for sure

Regarding the breathing and release of energy is important also and can be applied to any physical motions. Exhaling let us to release the stored tensions in the muscle and allow the energy to move more freely without "resistance" .

"My main point, can we do more and create more energy with less effort if we utilize and harness it right? Not just in golf but life as well"

Absolutely, learning martial arts can teach you to maximize your leverage and energy power and get you to intimately understand your own "chi"

[Simon Woo]

Re: the key to distance

Quick exhaling (ie. grunt) in martial arts upon the strike is important to prevent the sudden burst of energy from flowing back and possibly causing internal injury.

IMHO, golf is not quite the same cos :

1) We strive for the swing rather than hit at impact
2) The golf ball doesn't quite create the same opposing force (due to much smaller mass) as a human body

[shootin4par]

Re: the key to distance

Quick exhaling (ie. grunt) in martial arts upon the strike is important to prevent the sudden burst of energy from flowing back and possibly causing internal injury.

IMHO, golf is not quite the same cos :

1) We strive for the swing rather than hit at impact
2) The golf ball doesn't quite create the same opposing force (due to much smaller mass) as a human body

simon, maybe this is why golf is so elusive, because we think it is not the same, when it is. It is just like the rest of life and relies on natural principles, imo anyway

[shootin4par]

Re: the key to distance

Food for Thought:

If you can produce a certain burst of energy at the bottom the rest of the forward swing is wasted effort.

Think about how long the ball remains on the club face.

Directed Energy and Flow of Mass.

impact is all that matters, not how the follow through looks, or the backswing looks for that matter

[Martin Levac]

Re: the key to distance

In order to put this into the proper perspective, compare exhaling forcefully to exhaling normally instead of exhaling versus not exhaling.

As you exhale forcefully, you contract all the muscles in your torso to compress the abdominal cavity and the lungs. Contracting all those muscles will stiffen the torso allowing greater force to be transmitted from the legs to the arms. It also prevents the torso from twisting as much or as quickly than otherwise.

If I only look at the twisting restriction that it will produce, I prefer to think that it will hinder me more than it will help me.

But I have an alternative, in fact I'm working on it and will do so for the next year. I train with weights to become stronger so that I can apply less effort for the same or greater result. At first, I thought that strengthening only the arms was sufficient. I was wrong. I saw some progress but it just was not enough. Now I strengthen the whole body, especially the legs and back.

If you will allow me to deviate from the subject, i'll explain. Just last night, I read that the greatest exercise anybody can do to become stronger is the deadlift. It is said that it will strengthen all the major muscle groups because it requires all the major muscle groups. It doesn't surprise me to find that the heaviest weight people can lift is through the deadlift. I don't need to be very large or even to be very strong, I only need to be strong enough. Being strong enough is a long way from being too big so If anybody is worried about that, don't.

Becoming stronger allows me to put less effort but still produce the same result or to put the same effort but to produce a greater result. Perhaps becoming stronger is not a technique in itself but it will allow you to use the techniques you already know to produce better results. From personal experience and personal observation, I conclude that what the majority of players lack is strength first, practice second, technique last.

[shootin4par]

Re: the key to distance

Martin,
if you want to keep rotating your hips and shoulders through impact then you could very well be right. i dont want to rotate my hips and shoulders but rather transfer all the energy I can upon impact, so if my torso tightens up right at impact BUT that sends power down my arms, then I am all for it. martial arts breath out at impact,and the dead lifter does as well. At the moment of truth of those two and the golf swing the hands can either allow the energy to be released where we wish, or it can hinder and we do not have maximization. Just some thoughts, good points martin

[Martin Levac]

Re: the key to distance

Some sports require great accuracy with a weapon such as archery or riflery. These weapons are held in the hands while the shooter manipulates the weapon. As he fires it, he must still his breathing to prevent the breathing motion from affecting his accuracy with the weapon. He does so prior to firing the weapon, once the weapon has been fired, he can breath normally again. He repeats the process for the next shot and so on. Expert riflemen can also time their firing of the weapon to the tempo of their heartbeats to gain even more accuracy.

The skier will hold his breath for the duration of the descent to stiffen his torso much like a balloon to prevent it from buckling under the prepeated jumps and landings over the bumps. This will allow him to descend at a greater speed than otherwise.

I guess the same principles could be applied to the golf swing to prevent the breathing motion from affecting the accuracy of the player or to reinforce the torso for a fraction of a second to transmit a bit more power to the arms or to prevent the torso from breaking down during the swing.

[shootin4par]

Re: the key to distance

not sure what you mean by the skier, is the skier jumping, so landing and tension may be a good combo so the body does not fail under impact for a lack of tension. I would call the landing an obsorbtion rather than an exertion,Now coming off the jump I would think think a grunt would assist the jumper. I used to do this without thinking of it when I wakeboarded, skateboarded and jumped during volleyball. I am only 5,9 but to hang on a ten foot rim was no problem, I always wanted to dunk but just could not quite get that one

the archer, well that is not an exertion either, but rather a simple release of holding, I can see why being still would be of assistance.

many woman tennis players grunt and some men do, as they hit the ball, I wonder if any baseball players do? In the gym guys do it as they exert, martial arts as well. Japanese and chinese are good examples. Look at their car engines, very small but generate a lot of horsepower for their size. Their bodies are not the biggest either but someone like bruce lee is amazing. The culture, from my limited knowledge, seems effecient, so what can we lear from that for the golf swing? Do we need to be stronger, or just more effecient with the energy we already have? have you tried the drill yet?

[Martin Levac]

Re: the key to distance

No, I haven't tried that drill yet. In practice, I always focus on making proper contact with the ball so I look for techniques used in other sports that allow the person to be more precise in his movements than otherwise. Controlling my breathing is one such technique.

Anyway, I tried to hold my breath to see what's the what but it's so difficult because I'm fighting the reflex to start breathing again. I was trying to see if there was a difference between hitting the ball inhaling and hitting the ball exhaling. Even if there is no gain to be had in strength while controlling your breath, you could look into the effect it may have on accuracy or consistency. If you focus on always striking the ball on the exhale cycle, at least you'll be doing one thing the same way from swing to swing.

I think that breathing is so natural that the great majority of people don't consider that it can be affecting movement adversely.


The skier goes down the bumbs and the race lasts only a short time so he can hold his breath for the whole race. He is jumping and landing many times during that race so he holds his breath to maintain a solid posture throughout.

[shootin4par]

Re: the key to distance

I think that breathing is so natural that the great majority of people don't consider that it can be affecting movement adversely.

in our modern socioty the majority of peoples posture has become so bad and so much tension is in our socioty that breathing has been adversely affected for the majority of people. Here in the states we actually have a pill to get open up the nasal passage so you can breath easier and get more oxygen in the blood a breathing pill for relaxed people breathing is pretty good but for uptight people, not the same, I know I am one of them, well I got to go, need to breath now

[Scragger63]

Re: the key to distance

Shootin...

Since Seles started the whole "grunting" thing back in the late 90's early 2000's, yes, there have been a procession of "Grunters" in women's tennis. Serena Williams and Maria Sharapova being the two most recently successful in my opinion. However, the reason for the grunt, despite whatever sports journalists might tell you to the contrary is to simply prevent their opponent "HEARING" the sound of ball on racquet/strings and subsequently denying their opponent the opportunity to glean whatever information they might from that sound...

No more, no less....

Gamesmanship (or, sportswomanship if you'd prefer!) at its most banal if you ask me...

Now, in Golf, the rules (I think) actively preclude a player from any action
that may effect the play of a fellow competitor. And so it SHOULD be...

[shootin4par]

Re: the key to distance

cmays, it would be breathing in on the backswing and out through the mouth at impact or close to it. If you were breathing out as you start the backswing you would not have the same effect. TD seems to know a little something about this and another man on that side came in with a post that seems to be in agreement. But mainly for me it is still research phase and doing this while hitting balls left handed immediately made improvements but that was only yesterday so things need to be feild tested more.

[shootin4par]

Re: the key to distance

scragger, how can we be sure that is the reason the tennis players are doing it, to distract the opponents? Even if that is true I was more focused on figuring out how bruce lee got so much from so little and if it is possible to add it to the golf swing. of course we should not be screaming while golf but adding effecient breathing may assist us.

[Martin Levac]

Re: the key to distance

I think that Bruce got as good as he did through extensive practice of the same thing over and over.

I think it's the specificity principle in action. For example, to become an expert ball striker, one would practice striking the ball over and over as opposed to practicing striking an impact bag. In the case of Bruce, he got that good at doing what he did by practicing it over and over and probably not much else. His muscles got trained to do a specific task and they got very good at doing that task. Namely, applying great strength explosively.

Since I began to workout, I also began to read about weight lifting, bodybuilding and muscle hypertrophy and everything else related to that. As it happens, the muscles can become stronger without growing larger. It's a matter of how the muscles work internally, something about motor units and recruitment patterns and whatnot. It's also closely related to the type of practice such as speed, load, frequency, etc.

Anyway, as I see it to apply to the golf swing or the golf stroke as it were, practicing it over and over will train the muscles to do this specific task and in doing so they will become experts at doing it. I think that training with a heavy club will produce excellent results because it's the same movement done with a heavy club so the same muscles are sollicited, only harder.

I should stress that swinging the club with striking the ball and swinging the club without striking the ball are two different tasks. To become an expert at swinging the club with striking the ball, I'd have to practice that. Same as with a regular club, I think I'd have to strike the ball even as I practiced with the heavy club.

There is also the role of the central nervous system. Afterall, that's what controls the muscles and if it gets tired, the muscles' performance suffers because of it. During practice, the CNS is just as sollicited as the muscles and the rest of the body. The CNS is practiced just like the muscles are practiced. It learns to do the task we assign it until it becomes an expert at doing it.

Now to get back to breathing and how it may help. I remember when I practiced that I had a hard time holding my breath on the backswing. Somehow it restricted movement to a point where the whole body got turned with the shoulders just a bit too much. It's like it forces the torso to connect everything together too tight for my taste. So instead of holding my breath, how about I exhale and then close the trachea then swing. It works to some extent but it requires extensive practice because it's a concious act against the natural breathing pattern and it disrupts my normal focus of making proper contact.

Bear in mind that my goal in that breathing technique was not to produce more power instead it was intended to increase my precision. Nevertheless it could end up transmitting more power through better contact rather than produce more power through faster club speed.