Scooping & Chicken Wing!!

[dai3015]

Hi

I'm a "noobie" to the forum, but have been reading it for a little while. I've had some great tips from here, but have currently got a problem with a bit of scooping.
I'm really strugglig with consistency of strike & my distances are well down (7 iron 145 yards with Rifle 5.0 shafts).
I've posted a link to my swing face on & wondered if any of you guy's could give me some advice? I don't have easy access to a teaching pro as I live in the middle of rural UK.
All advice will be greatfully received.
http://www.jumpcut.com/view?id=9C21D...25000423CF382E

[pro-golfer]

Re: Scooping & Chicken Wing!!

Hi,
I am currently working on a project that will allow me to analise golf swings online through my website www.intouchgolf.co.uk and I think I will be able to help you, but I would need a better view of your golf swing. If you would like me to analise your swing FOC please allow me to view your swing in the following way.
You will need to take film of 2 views of your swing 1, Down the line 2, Face on
Ensure the camera is set on a tripod and is adjusted so that it is level with the subjects belt buckle.
Ideally the camera will be 15ft away from the golfer at both angles of filming.
For best results set the video camera to it's fastest shutter speed or sport mode if you have one.
When you record the swing make sure that you capture every movement of the club from takeaway to finish.
Finally upload the video file to your computer and use your editing software to cut the film so you only have the swing on file (2 seconds at most) for each angle.
Then get intouch with us and we will help you through the next steps. <back>
Hope you find this of some intrest Steve

[takinitdeep]

Re: Scooping &amp; Chicken Wing!!

Hi

I'm a "noobie" to the forum, but have been reading it for a little while. I've had some great tips from here, but have currently got a problem with a bit of scooping.
I'm really strugglig with consistency of strike & my distances are well down (7 iron 145 yards with Rifle 5.0 shafts).
I've posted a link to my swing face on & wondered if any of you guy's could give me some advice? I don't have easy access to a teaching pro as I live in the middle of rural UK.
All advice will be greatfully received.
http://www.jumpcut.com/view?id=9C21D...25000423CF382E

Can't see your swing on video but scooping and chicken wing can come from not turning on backswing and/or not dropping your left shoulder under your chin on backswing.
Take an 8 iron and begin turning your left shoulder under your chin on backswing with ball in middle or slightly back from middle of your stance.
Focus on leading the downswing with your hands and that should get you hitting crisp. Gradually work your way down your irons.
chicken wing can be different but essentially when you fail to turn your back to the target and allow the weight to transfer to your back instep, you are staying too forward, then as you come down you are allowing your left arm to break. Set up with the left arm in line with the shaft of the club so the back of your glove is facing the target. This is the position you want at impact with the hands leading of course.

[dai3015]

Re: Scooping &amp; Chicken Wing!!

Thanks guy's. Interesting, I didn't think I was taking the club back too far inside - will have to work on that. I previously used to fan the club open a lot on the way back, looks like I'm back into that bad habit as well!! Oh well, pounding balls it is then.

[Gudgeon]

Re: Scooping &amp; Chicken Wing!!

Hey Dai
Totally agree with you!!
But were'nt the free gobstoppers and iced tea well worth waiting for!
I'll catch up with you when you get back from Kacamaraca, and maybe we can get a few rounds of glof in.

Yours
Bernard

p.s played Trumpton on wednesday, i've really cracked this game now! What a brilliant day, 81 on the front nine, and 76 on the back nine. my best score yet!! And did you ever get that big Tailormade glof bat?

[dai3015]

Re: Scooping &amp; Chicken Wing!!

Cmays

Brilliant, thanks for your advice. I'll give it a go at the range in the next couple of nights & let you know how I get on.

Once again, many thanks

[Timothy Slaught]

Re: Scooping &amp; Chicken Wing!!

Hello DAI:

When your hands are about a foot from your right thigh in the downswing your wrists have released the 90 degree angle that should be maintained with the left hand and club shaft. Because you do have an agressive rotation through the ball, your only course of action to "save" the shot is to wing it.

The good news is that you do have that full release with the torso but you are unfortunatley releasing the club too early with it.

On the takeaway I really do not see any major flaws. It seems to be in one piece although you could stay a little more connected between the shoulders and arms. A down the line view would reveal better detail but the syncronization looks ok. I say this because when the club shaft is parallel to the ground in the backswing, your left shoulder has moved nicely, the hands are beginning to cock (not too early or late) and there has been a good weight shift. I really cannot see the club being dragged way inside at this point??? The shaft should match your toe line at this point. This is a critical juncture so if CMays viewpoint of this is correct than the flaw should be corrected. I just do not see an overt pulling inside the target line by any motion of your swing.

At the top , a nice three quarter, torqued backswing but your transition may be a tad quick. This often leads to the throwing motion that is occuring with the hands primarily. There is a training device called the wrist tack that can be used on either wrist for the purpose of maintaining the proper angles. I prefer to use it on the right wrist and I may sure it clicks on the backswing at the correct time and that it does not click (or release) too early on the downswing. This insures that you set properly going back and maintain coming down. This device is not very expensive.

It will take some time to train the wrists but the rest of your swing looks very sound so you should see good improvement without having to retool the whole swing by correcting the casting move of the clubhead.

[dai3015]

Re: Scooping &amp; Chicken Wing!!

Hi Timothy

Many thanks for your observations (and encouragement!!)

Following the advice received in the earlier posts, I've been working on trying to maintain a flat left wrist at impact & hitting a sort of low punch shot.
I've got a short video of the down the line shot of this:
http://www.jumpcut.com/view?id=12F71...AD000423CF4092

I know at the top of the swing I start down with a little move onto my toes.

If you can give me some more info on the device you mentioned, how to maintain the angle with my wrists & anything else you see I'd be more than grateful.

Cheers
Dai

[Timothy Slaught]

Re: Scooping &amp; Chicken Wing!!

Dai & CMays:

First off, great point by CMays on keeping the left wrist supple throughout the swing. Even if you have a slight cup of the left wrist at the top, which many do, it should return to flat at impact. Maintain the cup at impact and you will scoop. Keeping the grip and wrist pressure (and arms, and shoulders) moderate will benefit you no end in golf. It will allow the free hinging and unhinging of all of the correct joints.

Dai: The device I mentioned in my last post is the Wrist Tac and can be found on most websites that sell training aids. It attaches to the wrist and it has a metal strip covered in material that clicks when it is bent. On my right wrist, I will hear it click as I set my right wrist at about 3/4 of the way into my backswing and I don't want to hear it click again until impact. I also note that I tend to set the wrist later and less consciously with long clubs and the opposite with the short irons. This is because of the arc of the swing and motion created with varying length clubs. Many on this site advocate the Greg Norman Secret for the same purpose as the Wrist Tac. The secret is out of production (although if Greg Willis had done the marketing, maybe it wouldn't be...) so it can be difficult to find.

CMays: Question on that left wrist position at the top? I do notice several pros who utilize a strong ( by their standards 2 knuckles) grip and still get the left wrist flat at the top. In addition to the flat left wrist, the clubface is square to the wrist/arm? Some of the pros do seem to have a slight cup but obviously the clubface is still in a good position. I have tried to achieve the flat wrist position because it feels solid and I can monitor my backswing better. Still I feel that I am manipulating the wrists to get to this position and usually revert back to a cupped position. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Tim

[kbp]

Re: Scooping &amp; Chicken Wing!!

CMays: Question on that left wrist position at the top? I do notice several pros who utilize a strong ( by their standards 2 knuckles) grip and still get the left wrist flat at the top. In addition to the flat left wrist, the clubface is square to the wrist/arm?

The line in bold font being the curious part, being that the grip is strong at address.

I do in person, teach that you can have the wrist cupped in the backswing and have a flat wrist at impact.
I have them to take a strong left hand grip, turn the left hand knuckles down and the clubface should be square. Most people would not understand that concept on the forum. So we start out on the forum with a cup wrist from the strong grip, square clubface and return the same at impact...............I am hitting fast. You bet you can have the two knuckle grip and have a flat wrist at top by curling the fingrers and that will bow the left wrist out. Always do the pre-check, grip the club, knuckles down to chect to see if the clubface is square because you will be in the same position at impact.

Is this "check" the same thing as weakening the grip? I’m sure I’m just not understanding, but if I take a strong grip with clubface pointing to the target and then turn the knuckles down, the club face closes and delofts. To square it back up, I have to loosen the left hand grip and turn the club face back to square, while keeping the knuckles down.... a weak grip now, no? If I now add some cup, without loosening the grip, the club face will be open at address?

If I take a neutral to strong grip, a little cupping and a square club face at address and then flatten the wrist at the top of the swing, I have a closed club face that doesn’t align with the wrist or the forearm. Not a big surprise since with a strong grip, they don’t align at address and if the grip is not loosened during the swing, this relationship between the back of the left hand and the club face can’t change, can it? Similar problem at impact, unless something else changes.

Please, a little more information would be appreciated, cmays.

[dai3015]

Re: Scooping &amp; Chicken Wing!!

Hi guy's

Well, I've been practicing all the hints that have been given through this thread, but I'm still having trouble scooping!
Are there any feelings or thoughts that I should been trying to get as whatever I do, I can't seem to compress the ball nicely. It's killing my game & really hurting me.
I can get a nice drive away & leave myself a nice easy 9 into the green - then its chunk or thin & I'm scrambling to make par.
Please, please try to give me something to work on.

Cheers

[BrianW]

Re: Scooping &amp; Chicken Wing!!

Hi Dai,

I can see from your video you are collapsing your left wrist and elbow through impact.

A drill to improve this is to practice hitting balls one handed. First, at the range practice with your left arm swinging a 7 iron back and through with half swings so that you can just clip a rubber tee, rotate your hips and shoulders through the shot and keep your arm straight, open and close the club face by rotating your forearm only, no flipping of the wrist. Do the same using your right arm. Make sure your arms stay extended, no bending of the elbows.

Next tee up some balls and hit them one handed so that you get a nice short ball flight down the middle with a bit of height. Don't be concerned about distance, only nice contact with straight extended arms. Work on this until you can get good contact right off the Matt with either arm.

When you can do this well then use the same extension in your normal swing, you should find your follow through is higher over your left shoulder and you will make better contact and ball compression.

Hope it helps.

[dai3015]

Re: Scooping &amp; Chicken Wing!!

Great stuff

Cheers