Iron Swing / Wood Swing

[chuckberryuk]

Hi,

I have been playing about 8 years and am off 17. The strongest part of my game is my driver and fairway woods with a fairly poor iron game. Recently I decided to work on my irons in order to get my handicap down. I strengthened by right hand grip slightly and kaboom irons great with a little draw and getting the right distance, for me (8 iron 140). problem is now I can't hit my woods!!!! My driver is a dook hook or high curved ball (right to left). Wheras before I was leathal with my 3 & 9 woods I can't hit them at all. If I revert back to hitting my woods good I'm sure my irons will suffer. Any advice at all would be appreciated.....

Thanks in advance

Chuck

[jbrunk]

Re: Iron Swing / Wood Swing

It could be a bad mental picture of the swing with each club. All clubs require a downward blow IMO, but some teach that woods should be swept off the ground rather than hit down on.

It sounds like you are flipping or swatting at the ball. Can you post a video of your swing? If you swat you could hit woods decent, but not irons so maybe that is your prob. It is impossible to tell though without seeing your swing.

[james.welsh]

Re: Iron Swing / Wood Swing

I love my woods too. I'd much rather use a 9 wood than a 5 iron. But sooner or later you need to pull out a wedge :-(

The obvious thing to watch is the angle of your plane with the different shaft lengths.

I tried sticking a chopsick in the hole at the end of the grip (break it off so it's not too long or shove it in). When you swing back you'll get an automatic visualization of the swing plane by pointing the stick at an imaginary line running through the ball to the target.

Of you come in at too high a plane angle your club face will behave as though your using a much more upright lie which will affect your ball flight.

A hook, according to the prevailing wisdom is caused by a closed face relative to the swing path, which makes sense if you've just started strengthening your grip. You might not need to strengthen your grip so much with woods as you tend to play the ball farther forward in your stance and this means that by the time you impact the ball you've had that micro-second you need to naturally close the clubface.

I don't know if this makes sense to you, perhaps other might offer some clarification.

[LowPost42]

Re: Iron Swing / Wood Swing

I'm currently dealing with the same issue (and have been for quite some time). Iron ballstriking is getting tons better, but woods (including 1W) is brutal. I'm using a 14° 1W (so really, it's a 2W), and average a 7° launch angle. That's a -7° angle of attack, with a 1W! Good for irons, not so much with woods. When I really feel like I'm 'hanging back' and staying behind the ball so as to hit it on the upswing, I get a level AoA.

Someone mentioned mental picture - I think I need a new one!

[gatorguy146]

Re: Iron Swing / Wood Swing

Woods and Irons are two completely different types of clubs, so sometimes the best way for people with certain swings is to have two different swings, one for each club. Just do what works, if a certain swing works with the woods but not the irons use that swing for the woods and vice versa with the irons. However, the best possible thing you can do is to seek advice from a teaching pro. They will most likely try to set you up on a one plane swing which is hard for me to explain, but if you want to see what it looks like look at a sequence of tiger woods swing. That swing works for every single club, and I'd know because my pro has me doing that right now and I've already added massive distance with my driver and laser accuracy with my irons.

[bdbl]

Re: Iron Swing / Wood Swing

Rightly or wrongly I've come to the conclusion that, ignoring "speciality shots" for the moment, you should swing every club in exactly the same way and have been trying to do so for a few months now.

Depending on factors such as ball position, width of stance, length of club you may sweep your woods or come down steep on your wedges but fundamentally (that word again ) the swing is the same.

If, as for me often happens, I'm not driving well its not that my "iron swing" is Ok and that my "wood swing" that is at fault its just that using short irons disguises the flaws in my "every club swing" more.

[chuckberryuk]

Re: Iron Swing / Wood Swing

All,

Thanks for all the input. I have been to the range today and have worked on a few things. As I thought is was mainly down to my shoulders. Since I adopted a slightly stronger grip this has caused me to close my shoulders thus promoting a draw with my irons but a duck hook with driver. Working on this I have found that I need to feel almost wide open with driver and woods (even though I'm acutally not far off square, it feels wide open). I can get away with being closed with my irons. Also I take my irons back fairly closed rather than fanning open. So for me anyway the swing is slightly different with woods (more open stance) than my irons (closed stance and close clubface taking back).

We all know however, that that could all change tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!

[gatorguy146]

Re: Iron Swing / Wood Swing



This is what I meant by a one plane swing. Notice the red line, how his shoulders and the club are on the exact same plane.

http://golfdigest.com/instruction/in...igerswing.html

scroll down about half way on that page and it shows tiger's swing in sequence. With a one plane swing, you basically take a slice out of the question because if the swing is executed correctly there is no way that the ball can go to the right. It's just not possible the way the swing is shaped.

Hope this helps,
Tim

[LowPost42]

Re: Iron Swing / Wood Swing

With a one plane swing, you basically take a slice out of the question because if the swing is executed correctly there is no way that the ball can go to the right. It's just not possible the way the swing is shaped.

Hope this helps,
Tim

To quote Adam Sandler's 'Buffoon': You've got yer head way up yer ass!

Sure, the 1PS is flatter. But I can leave the ball out to the right a million ways - no matter what plane I'm swinging on. I've even gone so far as to overcook being flat. It actually makes you come out to in - so a square to target clubface results in a slice.

If you fan the clubface open on your backswing (you could have perfect plane), and don't close it again before impact, you get a block-slice.

I'm sorry sir - flattening your swing plane will NOT eliminate a slice. Yes, you said if executed correctly. I'll add that if any swing is executed correctly, then you take both slices and hooks out of the equation. In fact, you can't do anything but hit it straight if you execute the swing correctly!

[/rant]

[gatorguy146]

Re: Iron Swing / Wood Swing

W/e bro, unless my teaching pro whos played golf for 25 years is a liar I told him "I slice my drives and sometimes my irons" He said this swing will fix ur problem.

IDK if you think im wrong w/e

[LowPost42]

Re: Iron Swing / Wood Swing

I wouldn't go so far to say he's lying (the intentional misappropriation of information); but rather misinformed. All things being equal, the flatter nature of the OPS vs the TPS should have more balls going left as in theory you have much less chance of coming OTT.

But what I'm getting at is that there is no magic cure - and shame on your coach for stating that this would be one. If he's been golfing for 25 years, he should know better.

Yes, assuming that nothing else in your swing changes except flattening the plane; you should find less shots going right.

But it's not a cure-all and certainly not a guarantee.

Sorry if I'm coming across as a d!ck, but I really hate out and out misinformation.

[jbrunk]

Re: Iron Swing / Wood Swing

The slice is caused by an open clubface, PERIOD. Now, people will do all kinds of things to compensate for that, OTT, CAST, hanging back etc. Maybe a flatter swing reduces a slice, I don't know, IMO one plane, two plane is smoke and mirrors. If you don't open the face too much on the backswing and downswing, you won't slice. The hips rotation and the proper use of the forearms/wrists is the key to clubface control.


Go forth and prosper.

[bdbl]

Re: Iron Swing / Wood Swing

Just beat me to it Jbrunk; I was going say that discussing OPS vs TPS is a bit of a red herring.

Where and how the ball flies is dependant on swing path and face angle at impact (and angle of approach - steep /flat - if you consider this to be different to path).

I think LP is being kind because imo suggesting that a OPS alone without consideration of the clubface at impact will solve a slice verges on the fraudulent - at the very least its silly.

[Timothy Slaught]

Re: Iron Swing / Wood Swing

Hello:

CMays: You said that woods are weighted more towards the top? That seems contrary to all of the new design features that we are bombarded with in advertisements stating that this wood or that wood is weighted low and as far away from the face as possible? In fact the whole engineering principle of the composite crown material is to take weight away from the top of the club to position it deeper towards the sole? What where you refering to.

JBRunk: You hit it on the head. An open clubface causes the clockwise spin. No to ways or planes about it.

This whole "one plane two plane swing" issue used to be called the difference between an "upright or flat swing". Both have been used very successfully and very poorly since the game was invented. The vital element is impact and good players know what the correct impact position is and how to achieve it and high handicaps usually do not. Take a look at all the impact positions of the top players and they are very similiar. Head behind the ball always. Top of left arm glued to the left pectoral muscle. Back of left wrist flat. Right hand still cupped. Weight shifted at the feet to the left side but the body having the appearance of leaning away from the target on the teed wood shots and more stacked toward the target as the clubs increase in loft.

Most good instructors will key on impact with their students. They use impact bags as this is a tried and true method to feel the powerfull and correct position. They will next ingrain the fluid motion of impact by hitting short chip type shots and progressively move to longer swings. Although this method is not as exciting and "modern" as developing a one plane swing, if you cannot achieve good impact you may as well have a four plane swing.

I have also found Gregs impact drill to be a unique but effective way to ingrain the impact feel and it is a great streching exersise as well. Just do it in privacy.....my wife had some questions when she saw me perfecting this drill......

Have a great weekend all,
Tim

[gatorguy146]

Re: Iron Swing / Wood Swing

I wouldn't go so far to say he's lying (the intentional misappropriation of information); but rather misinformed. All things being equal, the flatter nature of the OPS vs the TPS should have more balls going left as in theory you have much less chance of coming OTT.

But what I'm getting at is that there is no magic cure - and shame on your coach for stating that this would be one. If he's been golfing for 25 years, he should know better.

Yes, assuming that nothing else in your swing changes except flattening the plane; you should find less shots going right.

But it's not a cure-all and certainly not a guarantee.

Sorry if I'm coming across as a d!ck, but I really hate out and out misinformation.

shame on my coach for fixing my swing and having my drives go straight down the middle everytime as opposed to that high slice to the right i was dealing with?

yeah i guess my coach sucks then
what a mean guy he is