Shoulders or Hips.

[The Hud]

Most players seem to recommend starting the backswing by turning the shoulders, while others, like Mike Austin, say turn the hips. I would like to hear opinions on this.

[GregJWillis]

Re: Shoulders or Hips.

It matters what you mean by "Starting". To me this means the first move back. If the shoulder rotation starts the takaway, that means the hands didn't. And that solves a lot of problems right away. I like cmay's preloading of the hips idea, but want to make sure that this doesn't mean that they don't also rotate back as well...just not as much as the shoulders would.

[Renton405]

Re: Shoulders or Hips.

I always start the backswing with a little foward weight shift first(a VERY TINY subtle movement).. A little push shift on the left foot and then start the takeaway.. It gives you a nice one piece motion takeaway instead of that feeling of just "picking the club up"..it also uses momentum better to start the backswing isntead of twisting and turning..

If you are wavering you are doing the move too much.. it has to be small and subtle.. but if you do it right it gives you a perfect one piece takeaway.. as you load on your left foot and then start the backswing you feel as if your moving your arms and shoulders in one piece.. imagine a upsidedown triangle going from your hands to your shoulders..

Jim McLean in his 8 steps video says that the start of the backswing isn't actually back, but foward...and that it gives a perfect transition to start the backswing..

[The Hud]

Re: Shoulders or Hips.

Thanks guys for your answers. so it looks like starting with the hips is out. I have been doing what renton495 sugested, but my pro has told me to just turn the shoulders and the hips will follow, but I don't feel that I am getting my shoulders to turn far enough, that I need more hip turn to do so, this is why I asked the question.

What do you mean cmays when you say you get your hips set so that it leaves only the shoulders to turn. I set up with the left hip slightly higher than the right, I slide the right knee in, as you sugested in an another post and have slightly more weight on the right foot.

[tony_teetime]

Re: Shoulders or Hips.

Hip must open/clear out of the way first on the way back to allow upperbody and arms to get to the top. Then again the other side of the hip must open/clear first on the downswing to create room for the arms to sling through. This is the "natural" way your body is design to work effectively to produce power. The Jim Mclean X-factor theory regarding keeping minimal hip turn and create maximum shoulder turn to create what he calls big X-factor is hogwash. Doing this X-factor stuff will only create extra unwanted muscle tension in your swing.

[jambalaya]

Re: Shoulders or Hips.

I try to use the shoulders only. If you make a really good shoulder turn it will put pressure on the hips and turn them as part of the coil you are creating. So no, I wouldn't consciously turn them in the back swing.

[shootin4par]

Re: Shoulders or Hips.

I try to use hips and have them turn my spine which turns my shoulders. I dont like the X factor stuff, it hurts my back. I made a post on numbers I got with the speed stick and the xfactor did not gain me any speed. when the shoulders turn against the hips, this puts tension on my spine which I dont like nor do I feel I need. But each golfer will do it the way they best see fit and as long as they enjoy themselves then that is what matters.
have fun
Neil

[jbrunk]

Re: Shoulders or Hips.

I used to turn shoulders only against passive hips and found that it got me reaaaaalllly inside. I didn't need to be that inside. I still have a very passive lower body but I have added a minute forward press into a "pickup" motion to keep from pulling inside. It kind of looks like JB Holmes-ish. I sort of blend a pickup feel with the shoulders turning going back. It helps put me right on plane at the top with a FLW.

[merarmou]

Re: Shoulders or Hips.

I try to use hips and have them turn my spine which turns my shoulders. I dont like the X factor stuff, it hurts my back. I made a post on numbers I got with the speed stick and the xfactor did not gain me any speed. when the shoulders turn against the hips, this puts tension on my spine which I dont like nor do I feel I need. But each golfer will do it the way they best see fit and as long as they enjoy themselves then that is what matters.
have fun
Neil

The "new x-factor" is really the first move from the top (hips).

"The key to the new X-factor is the first move down from the top—the change in direction—and you should start it by rotating your hips toward the target just as your shoulders are completing the backswing turn.
Contrast this with the common fault of starting down with the upper body, which actually narrows the “X” between your shoulders and hips. Learn to separate your hips from your shoulders and you’ll hit longer drives right away."
http://www.golfonline.com/golfonline...8865-1,00.html


The "old" x-factor is the differential between your hips and shoulders at the top of your swing. If you are experiencing pain, you are probably turning more than what your body can handle. Both x-factors have been scientifically studied and show they have an effect on power.

m

[msklar92]

Re: Shoulders or Hips.

A simple exercise, 1 - set up your stance without a club, 2 put your hands on opposite shoulders 3- make a back swing in this position and load up the right leg. From there, take the hands away from your chest as if you are going to hold a club. You should be in the correct backswing position and probably did not even think about the hips. Mike

[jambalaya]

Re: Shoulders or Hips.

I try to use hips and have them turn my spine which turns my shoulders. I dont like the X factor stuff, it hurts my back. I made a post on numbers I got with the speed stick and the xfactor did not gain me any speed. when the shoulders turn against the hips, this puts tension on my spine which I dont like nor do I feel I need. But each golfer will do it the way they best see fit and as long as they enjoy themselves then that is what matters.
have fun
Neil

I don't want to even think about my hips turning my shoulders back. Are you trying to mess with us shootin?

[shootin4par]

Re: Shoulders or Hips.

I don't want to even think about my hips turning my shoulders back. Are you trying to mess with us shootin?

no. My first move back is moving my left hip on a 45* angle, this gets my weight to shift back and turn my hips and shoulders and then the momentum of the club turns me the rest of the way. I want very little seperation between my hips and shoulders at the top so I dont tear up my spine

[pnearn]

Re: Shoulders or Hips.

no. My first move back is moving my left hip on a 45* angle, this gets my weight to shift back and turn my hips and shoulders and then the momentum of the club turns me the rest of the way. I want very little seperation between my hips and shoulders at the top so I dont tear up my spine

Hi Neil

Interestingly I've been working a lot lately on using my hips more on the backswing, at least freeing them up a lot more and trying to feel like my right hip is turning behind me as an initial move. I think for me this does 2 things, ensures my hands and arms arent starting the motion and sets up a good pivot

Ive been working on then blending that motion with an upward swing of the right arm (from the elbow socket and led by the right forearm) and using my right forearm to trace the plane going back. If I didnt do this and just turned Id go wayyy inside and flat

Ive got to a really good point where as I continue this upward swing of the arms led by the right forearm- my lower body seems to bounce out of this coil and move forward all on its own - like a great automatic transition move - just happens and its all set up my making sure the coil happens early and quickly in the backswing. Indeed the coil/pivot seems much tighter and compact and it feels like im coiling a lot less (where in reality I was probably over turning before and coming out of all my angles)