Shaft Flex / Kickpoint

[pompeygolfer]

I've just bought a Cleveland Hibore XL with the 'fit on' red shaft by fujikura.

This shaft was recommended to me because I am a pretty powerful guy with a fast swing speed. My handicap is a generous 8.

Whilst I have hit some monster drives with the club, all shots seem to block to the right unless I really try to work my wrists through impact. It is all too easy then to overdo things and pull the shots left.

Is the shaft too stiff or does it have something to do with the high kickpoint on the red shaft. Would I be better with the gold shaft or should I persevere.

[Sumosid]

Re: Shaft Flex / Kickpoint

sounds too stiff to me

[RandomHero1090]

Re: Shaft Flex / Kickpoint

I've just bought a Cleveland Hibore XL with the 'fit on' red shaft by fujikura.

This shaft was recommended to me because I am a pretty powerful guy with a fast swing speed. My handicap is a generous 8.

Whilst I have hit some monster drives with the club, all shots seem to block to the right unless I really try to work my wrists through impact. It is all too easy then to overdo things and pull the shots left.

Is the shaft too stiff or does it have something to do with the high kickpoint on the red shaft. Would I be better with the gold shaft or should I persevere.

I was just fitted for the HiBore XL 9.5* (not the Tour) with the Fit On Red Stiff. My clubspeed was clocked at 101 mph over 8 swings. I am also close to your handicap (6). I too hit some of the biggest drives of my life with this club. I hit one last Saturday 337 yards based on the in cart GPS. My longest drive previous, also on this course, was 315 yards.

However, I fight a bit of a PULL. You are fighting a PUSH. Honestly, I would look at your swing plane before looking at the club. If you are laying off the club or coming too much from the inside, that could be causing the push.

My suggestion: DON'T hang back on your right side. How to correct??? Make sure you are making a nice balanced backswing. Make sure to keep your right knee flex and DON'T over-rotate. Heck, even take a 3/4ths swing. That's what I do. To start your downswing, I would start with a lower-left-side-body-moment. Some people bump the left hip and some people rotate the left hip UP and LEFT. This move should drop your hands into the slot. From this position you should be able to rotate that right shoulder down (not OUT) and forward. You should be transfering much of your weight from the right foot to the left. If you are feeling more weight on the right foot THAN the left at impact, you are hanging back.

Yes, you want to "stay behind the ball," but you still need to transfer weight. You don't want to go like a madman and throw your body ahead of the ball, but you still need to get to that left side.

At impact, you should have a good bit of your weight on your left side with a posted left leg, right shoulder low, slight bow to the left wrist, cupped right wrist.

At your finish position, your right shoulder should be over your left foot. 90% of your weight on your left leg.

Ok, I went off here a bit I absolutely love my club. I have never hit anything like it!

[ogallalabob]

Re: Shaft Flex / Kickpoint

I would agree with those above the kick point would have more to do with the trajectory. So the high kick point should not cause it to go right, but rather lower ball flight. Could be too stiff of shaft, but if distance is not suffering I doubt it is the case.

Might be just getting used to the new club. Change of the the clubhead, weight of the drivers, diferent shafts etc. length of shafts? you may have adapted your swing to the old one and now it is going to need to be adapted to this one. I doubt a shaft change will make all the diference unless you know what the problem is.

[RandomHero1090]

Re: Shaft Flex / Kickpoint

I was pushing everything right today because my swing was sloppy and I was rushing.

I slowed down, took my time to focus on my setup, and bingo, 280 yards with a tight draw.

Proper setup and takeaway are such big keys to a golf swing, and they are always so overlooked.

[30yearlayoff]

Re: Shaft Flex / Kickpoint

Not to suggest this is the cause but...to add to this subject....

There is some new info that is coming out about proper shaft selection. There is a PCS club maker that is collecting data and giving numerical references to various points on the shaft regarding stiffness. and frequency. I think he uses 3 points on the shaft and uses a rating scale similar to Rifle shafts. For an example. The shaft may have a butt freq. of 5.5, a mid shaft freq. of 5.9 and a tip frequency of 5.7.

Individuals stress the shaft in different ways in their swings. Most shafts are selected for swing speed and some regard is given to kick point. Butt frequency usually determines the overall stiffness value of the shaft.

But say two individuals have the same swing speed but...one has a nice, smooth, easy transition and a flatter swing plane. The other has a very abrupt transition and is steeper. One needs the shaft to be stiffer at different points on the shaft that the other. They both, typically, are fitted with a shaft that is predominately determined by their swing speed.


Do a search on Jerry Hoefling Jr. and his research in this area. Leif Andersen just wrote an article on this and explains it very well. Jerry is doing and publishing the research on this subject and the claims are that you can better fit a shaft to an individual by knowing how they stress the shaft throughout the swing.

I'm going to have my PCS clubfitter/maker to look into this for me because I think this idea has legs to it.

[RandomHero1090]

Re: Shaft Flex / Kickpoint

Random:

And all the golfing children shouted,





Amen!

PRAISE THE GOLFING GODS! PRAISE HIGH MOI! HIGH MOI!

[RandomHero1090]

Re: Shaft Flex / Kickpoint

"But say two individuals have the same swing speed but...one has a nice, smooth, easy transition and a flatter swing plane. The other has a very abrupt transition and is steeper. One needs the shaft to be stiffer at different points on the shaft that the other. They both, typically, are fitted with a shaft that is predominately determined by their swing speed."


You are 100% correct. I am sure I swing the club in a different manner than PompeyGolfer. However, PompeyGolfer has said he has hit some "monster drives" with his new club, this is why I suggested looking at your swing plane before you ditch the club.

My swing is pretty smooth, but its also above 100 mph. When I tried stiffer shafts, I either hit blocks or push slices. I couldn't close the clubface.

Also, when you get fitted, you are going to look at your performance with a club over 5-8 swings. Depending on the quality of those swing....how your body felt that day, were you OVERLY aggressive, were you passive, etc etc etc. So you are trying to find the "best" fitting driver for you.

Remember, there are a lot of different clubheads out there too.....

So much goes into getting fitted. And the problem with golfers today, they worry more about their clubs than they do their swing

[LowPost42]

Re: Shaft Flex / Kickpoint

30yearlayoff - JHS is definitely on the right track there. I think he claims an 85% success rate with his method. It makes so much sense to me, I'm trying to figure how to incorporate it more fully into my own shop.

Between this and PCS'er Dan Connelly's TrueLength Technology, I feel I'll be fitting and building some very, very playable clubs, very soon.

[30yearlayoff]

Re: Shaft Flex / Kickpoint

30yearlayoff - JHS is definitely on the right track there. I think he claims an 85% success rate with his method. It makes so much sense to me, I'm trying to figure how to incorporate it more fully into my own shop.

Between this and PCS'er Dan Connelly's TrueLength Technology, I feel I'll be fitting and building some very, very playable clubs, very soon.

I called my PCS clubmaker (Mike Phelan - Class A - Daytona Beach) and talked to him about it. It's better defined as a shaft profiling method. What I like is...1. we can determine the characteristics of the shaft that is an overall better fit for me...and....2. With this profiling, let's say the profile of a 200.00 (or more) fits me but I don't want to spend that much. This profiling will enable him (clubmaker) or me to find a comparable shaft profile that is less expense and still give me what I need for my swing.

We are going to take a look at some of this for my driver next week. Looking forward to it.

[30yearlayoff]

Re: Shaft Flex / Kickpoint

"But say two individuals have the same swing speed but...one has a nice, smooth, easy transition and a flatter swing plane. The other has a very abrupt transition and is steeper. One needs the shaft to be stiffer at different points on the shaft that the other. They both, typically, are fitted with a shaft that is predominately determined by their swing speed."


You are 100% correct. I am sure I swing the club in a different manner than PompeyGolfer. However, PompeyGolfer has said he has hit some "monster drives" with his new club, this is why I suggested looking at your swing plane before you ditch the club.

My swing is pretty smooth, but its also above 100 mph. When I tried stiffer shafts, I either hit blocks or push slices. I couldn't close the clubface.

Also, when you get fitted, you are going to look at your performance with a club over 5-8 swings. Depending on the quality of those swing....how your body felt that day, were you OVERLY aggressive, were you passive, etc etc etc. So you are trying to find the "best" fitting driver for you.

Remember, there are a lot of different clubheads out there too.....

So much goes into getting fitted. And the problem with golfers today, they worry more about their clubs than they do their swing

Two things...1 - I said I was just adding the info along the lines of discussion. I was not trying to debate or take away from anything else previously mentioned.

2. in MY opinion, I good club fitter will use a launch monitor at the range where the ball flight can be verified against the info the launch monitor suggests. My club fitter will use 4 swings and then have me hit as many as I want. Also, I make sure I am good and warm and I am duplicating normal drives before we start taking readings.
This is possible but not as accurate (to me) as indoors, hitting into a net or screen. I've seen those LMs give very different readings from anything I've ever hit. I want to see the ball fly to confirm the LM.

CIAO!

[RandomHero1090]

Re: Shaft Flex / Kickpoint

Two things...1 - I said I was just adding the info along the lines of discussion. I was not trying to debate or take away from anything else previously mentioned.

2. in MY opinion, I good club fitter will use a launch monitor at the range where the ball flight can be verified against the info the launch monitor suggests. My club fitter will use 4 swings and then have me hit as many as I want. Also, I make sure I am good and warm and I am duplicating normal drives before we start taking readings.
This is possible but not as accurate (to me) as indoors, hitting into a net or screen. I've seen those LMs give very different readings from anything I've ever hit. I want to see the ball fly to confirm the LM.

CIAO!

Sorry if I seemed defensive

"Shaft profiling" sounds like a good way to go. That way, you can try totally different clubs with similar shafts and see what works best for you, especially if cost is an issue.

Believe me, I would love to own a TaylorMade SuperQuad customized w/ a Grafalloy Axis Stiff shaft (probably a $700 club, if you could even get it)