Unwinding

[Neil18]

Hey people. Long time no post. Hope all are well.

I have made so much progress with my swing in the last 4 months it's remarkable. The video comparison bewteen me earlier this year to now is almost unrecognisable as the same swing. The key to my understanding of it has been finding information that has been communicated in such a way that it has struck a chord with me. When I have found this information, it has made the parts of my swing as clear as day, and the sum of the parts a joy to possess.

My golf swing is almost exactly where I want it, except for one thing. I have lag, I have my hands ahead at impact, I have a free release to the target, and I'm on plane (most of the time). However, I still have a tendency at the start of my downswing to get back over the top of the ball, instead of keeping my head behind it. It seems I have a tendency to straighten my legs in the downswing, rather than drive my knees targetwards to start the unwinding process form the bottom up. This leads to inconsistencies that I would like to remove from my swing (i.e semi-thin shots or wide pushes) as I end up straighten my posture in the process.

Has anyone got any nuggets of how unwinding from the bottom up should feel, and how to keep your head behind the ball through impact?

Cheers

[shootin4par]

Re: Unwinding

for me, a left side dominated move will make me move past the ball with my head, a right side dominated move will shift my C.O.G./weight left while allowing my head to stay back. Hogan had many "secrets" floating out there, one of them was when he kicked the right knee towards that ball and supposedly that got rid of his lefts. that is similar to what I am talking about.
Stand with feet shoulder width apart and go to the top, now kick your right knee down and towards the ball, it will basically be going out at a 45* angle to your target line. Feel this motion in your feet. This will shift your COG left, which is shifting your weight, and keep your head back.

maybe something there will work for you or make sense, I dont know, when it comes to the golf swing it seems as if few know for sure
Enjoy
neil

[edshaw]

Re: Unwinding

In this forum, some discussion has
developed concerning Hogan's hip
move and the possibility that Ben's
secret is revealed by noting the
pronounced upward pointing of the
left hip socket at follow-through.

Reading Leadbetter's analysis of
Hogan's fundamentals, David recalls
the much touted unrevealed "secret"
as told to "Life" magazine in 1956 is
associated with a left hand position
at the top of the backswing. Ben said
this "secret," which amounted to his
ultimate breakthrough in understanding,
was an "experts only" tip which would
probably cause more harm than good to
the average golfer. It makes sense, then,
that Ben did not go into the point in
his "Five Lessons" for this reason.

Not wanting to create the impression
I know more than any of the many golfers
who have debated the notion of Hogan's
secret over the years, I honor and
appreciate the depth of thought that went
into the discussion of that topic
in this forum, that is, the discussion
of the hip plane, but I contend that Hogan's
work is fairly plain with respect to the
action of the hips in the swing. References
to this topic abound in "Five Lessons,"
in particular on pages 91 and 54.

What the student is seeing, namely, the
upward pointing left hip, should be taken
in the context of a hip plane that is
slanted downward from back to front. The
common flaw would be to rotate the hips on
plane that was parallel to the ground.
So, if the student follows model hip action,
he or she will note the right hip tilts
up at the top of the backswing and the
left hip socket tilts down. The action
is reversed on the downswing and finishes
in the position we noted. All this allows
the power stroke to proceed unrestricted.
Nicklaus, Middlecoff, and Jones are models,
as is Hogan. In common parlance, this is
"clearing the left side," one of the first
golf lessons offered to the beginner.

President Eisenhower was an avid golfer and
an Augusta Nzational member. His advice was
terse, "Stick your butt out." This capsule
of instruction contains all the information
the student needs to help him assume the
desired tilt to the rotational plane of the
hips. That is to say, the rotational plane of
the hips is essentially parallel to the ground
as the knees are slightly bent. Sticking the
butt out causes that plane to assume the
necessary tilt. Note Hogan's illustration
on page 54, the golfer lowering himself on
to a spectator stick. Same thing.

Golfers could do worse than to take the
correct rotational plane of the hips seriously
as use hip rotation as one of the primary
initiating and regulating aspects of the swing.

[Martin Levac]

Re: Unwinding

Neil18,

If you will accept a bit of wisdom. As you propel the club downward, the legs must support this motion by pushing back upward. The swinging motion must swing against something, the legs. The tendency you see could be normal.

I say could because it could also be a symptom of another problem that is common. The problem is this, as the club is swung downward, the player fears that it will hit the ground before it hits the ball so he accelerates the shoulders a bit faster than necessary. But the fear is still there and he also pushes upward with the legs.

Two things you may want to try, push outward with your hands, push upward with your legs. Another things to watch out for is to maintain a proper position of the shoulders relative to the hands. In other words, do not accelerate the shoulders quicker than the hands. If you must accelerate something, accelerate the hands.

This problem comes from the precept that we must not propel the club with the hands. As we forbid ourselves to propel the club with the hands, we exaggerate the use of our lower body to the point where we don't use the hands and arms to propel the club anymore. And when comes the time to accelerate the club further, we twist and turn the shoulders quicker than the hands.

The problem disappears when we use the hands and arms to propel the club. It disappears because if we want that little bit more speed, all we do is accelerate the hands. I've had to deal with that problem.

[shootin4par]

Re: Unwinding

martin, the left leg extends and the rear lef bends, the opposite of the back swing. so the legs pushing up

[Martin Levac]

Re: Unwinding

My starting position is with slightly bent legs. As I swing the club, I swing it downward. As it gets to strike the ball, it feels heaviest. It feels heaviest because of the centripetal force I apply to it. If I do nothing, I'll go down with the club. I push up with my legs to support the swinging motion. Pushing up with my legs has the tendency to straighten them.

That tendency is normal unless I have the problem I outlined before.

I recall Tiger mentioning that he maintained his rear leg bent on the backswing and that it was a sort of trademark for him. I also recall that he mentioned he did a certain move to get that bit more speed, he straightened or snapped the forward leg.

Bending the forward leg on the downswing would be like collapsing under a weight.

-edit- Don't forget, the weight shifts on the downswing. -edit-

[Neil18]

Re: Unwinding

I understand the physical nature of what you've put forward Martin. I think my problem is possibly relating to straightening my legs at the wrong time. I've looked at my video again today.

I have noted that at, and after impact Tiger Woods launches himself into the follow through where his entire body from the ground up appears to "leap" almost as if he were swinging out of his shoes. This, I think, gives the impression that he is swinging harder than he is.

I wouldn't mind having that in my swing, but the straightening of my legs (particularly my rear one) too early in the swing pushes my torso over the ball before I've gotten two-thirds of the way through my downswing. It appears that my right hip moves up and toward the target (RH) which is what impacts my spine angle and results in the occasional thin when my brain and body aren't quite in sync on any given day.