clubface at the top

[sandmac]

I'll use driver for my example since it's easiest to notice this because of the larger clubface...

I have noticed that (right handed) pros have the clubface parallel to the top of their left hand at the top of the swing. The left wrist is completely straight.
It seems this is the result of maintaining the plane from address. If this can be achieved, than so much of the concern is removed because it would seem to me you know if you return to impact on plane, you're in great shape!

How does one arrive at this point? Is is the grip? Something to do with an adjustment during the backswing? What can one do to arrive at this optimal position?

Thanks!

[kbp]

Re: clubface at the top

Since the grip doesn’t change during the swing, the back of the left hand will be parallel to the club face at the top IF it is parallel to the clubface at address (and at every other point along the swing). This means the back of the left hand facing directly at the target at address, ie. a weak grip.

With a neutral or strong grip the back of the hand will be a bit more on top of the grip at address or slightly facing the sky while the clubface is looking at the target. The back of the left hand and the clubface are not in line nor will they ever be in line with this grip. The back of the left hand has a slight cup in it at address. Generally, you see this same cup at the top with a stronger grip, or you will see a flat left wrist with the clubface face "closed"at the top.

As cmays often points out, whatever position your hands and clubface are in at address, the general goal is to return them to that position at impact.

[RandomHero1090]

Re: clubface at the top

Since the grip doesn’t change during the swing, the back of the left hand will be parallel to the club face at the top IF it is parallel to the clubface at address (and at every other point along the swing). This means the back of the left hand facing directly at the target at address, ie. a weak grip.

With a neutral or strong grip the back of the hand will be a bit more on top of the grip at address or slightly facing the sky while the clubface is looking at the target. The back of the left hand and the clubface are not in line nor will they ever be in line with this grip. The back of the left hand has a slight cup in it at address. Generally, you see this same cup at the top with a stronger grip, or you will see a flat left wrist with the clubface face "closed"at the top.

As cmays often points out, whatever position your hands and clubface are in at address, the general goal is to return them to that position at impact.

....wow. I think we can close this thread out and call it a day!

Great post kbp!

[Timothy Slaught]

Re: clubface at the top

Hello:

I agree that the position of the hands on the grip, whether strong, neutral or weak can often affect the position at the top of the backswing.

I'm not sure I agree with the the comment that the position of the hands at address must be duplicated at impact. In fact, I think this contributes to the scooping problem.

If you start with a slightly strong grip, you definitely see a cupped position of the left hand at address and often at the top. For solid impact, however, it seems that without exception, the left wrist and hand are flat with a slight cupped position of the right hand. It is for this reason that many better players start with a neutral grip and get to the top with the flat position of the left wrist they will maintain from the top to impact. There is less manipulation this way. This is difficult for many amateurs because they do not capitalize on the other powerfull body actions (legs, torso, hips) therfore have to rely on their hands more. The compensation is the use of a strong grip which allows more leverage with the hands but does require manipulation to go from the cupped left hand position to flat at impact.


Also, I do see some pros who start with a slightly strong grip and still get the flat left wrist position at the top. Usually this is accompanied with the shut clubface.

Address and impact are definitely two distinct positions including the hands and wrists in my opinion.

[sandmac]

Re: clubface at the top

Thank you guys for the tips. Can someone clarify the visual of the clubface as it relates to open or closed at the top of the backswing? If the face is parallel to the ground is it open or closed?...etc.

Also, what is the ideal face angle at the top for a strong grip?

Thanks.

[Timothy Slaught]

Re: clubface at the top

Sanmac:

Parallel to the ground would be very open.

Even with a strong grip you should strive for a square clubface position at the top of the backswing. You would have a slight cup in your left wrist to match up with that cup formed by your strong left hand position. The clubface should match the position of your left forearm if possible.

[kbp]

Re: clubface at the top

I'm not sure I agree with the the comment that the position of the hands at address must be duplicated at impact. In fact, I think this contributes to the scooping problem.

Please notice I said the HANDS must come back to the same position, that is, the direction the back of the left hand is facing. You are talking about the angle between the forearm and the wrist. I’m talking about the direction the wrist faces.

Address the ball and while still at address, rotate the back of the left hand, without letting go of the club. The club face goes off square. It seems obvious that changing the direction the back of the left hand faces from address to impact will change the direction of the clubface. The point is that the relationship between the direction the back of the left wrist is facing and the direction the clubface is facing is set by the grip and can’t change during the swing unless your grip slips or is loose. The strength of the grip determines the relative positions. With a weak grip, the back of the left wrist and the clubface may face nearly the same direction. With a neutral to stronger grip, they obviously will not face the same direction.

I think we’re saying the same things, really.

[jbrunk]

Re: clubface at the top

Most high handicappers, slicers and flippers need to learn the benefits of a "shut" clubface (I like to say less open). FLW at the top is a very desireable position to be in IMO. Most of the top ballstrikers of all time at a FLW at the top of their swing.

[RandomHero1090]

Re: clubface at the top

Most high handicappers, slicers and flippers need to learn the benefits of a "shut" clubface (I like to say less open). FLW at the top is a very desireable position to be in IMO. Most of the top ballstrikers of all time at a FLW at the top of their swing.

Absolutely jbrunk! I know Luke Donald didn’t win this weekend, but his position at the top of his swing is something to look to duplicate. Flat left wrist, coiled turn, solid balance. He is a great ball striker IMO. Heck, Jack Nicklaus called him “one of the best strikers he has ever seen.”

[BrianW]

Re: clubface at the top

Thank you guys for the tips. Can someone clarify the visual of the clubface as it relates to open or closed at the top of the backswing? If the face is parallel to the ground is it open or closed?...etc.

Also, what is the ideal face angle at the top for a strong grip?

Thanks.

This Video should help with your understanding:

http://www.ritson-sole.com/golf-tips...ing-your-grip/