Right Shoulder down plane/Axis Tilt

[pnearn]

I'm working with a good pal of mine trying to straighten him out a little. On video he is roundhousing his shoulders and coming OTT and I want him to try and learn to get his right shoulder down and more of an axis tilt as he starts his downswing but although I can show him what he needs to he and I are having trouble getting him to 'feel' a good way of doing this

We've tried getting him to try bumping his hips but this sets up a big slide and he still roundhouses. We've tried left shoulder up and this is better but the clubface is still open into impact

The best way weve found so far that seems to work sporadically is having him feel like he swings up from the top of the swing such that his right shoulder drops (swing up to hit down) but does anyone have any other ideas/suggestions we can try?

[BrianW]

Re: Right Shoulder down plane/Axis Tilt

Hi Paul,

This is one I read once from Jack Nicklaus:

At the top when the shoulders are fully turned imagine your left shoulder is pushing back against a wall set behind it, as you come down the wall is stopping your left shoulder from turning back, of course it has to but the feeling will prevent an early rotation of the shoulders.

[pnearn]

Re: Right Shoulder down plane/Axis Tilt

Cheers Brian

Its difficult to try and get this concept across to someone. I know I do it becuase we can see it on tape but I have moved to a hitting motion the last year where I use my lower body to pull my right shoulder down and then hit down hard with my right hand just before impact (right shoulder pushes the piston - bent right elbow - right hand releases and straightens the right elbow). I find it hard to describe what Im doing to him and my 'feel' doesnt work for him

Im trying to get him to do the first bit right where he uses his lower body to pull that right shoulder DOWN. But he does what every other high handicapper does, moves his lower body OK but simaltaenously goes with his hands and roundhouses his shoulders. i.e. casting and OTT

I need to get him somehow to feel how a lower body motion will drive his shoulder down and towards right field -without the casting of the hands and the OTT roundhouse of the shoulders

I'll try your Jack idea

[pnearn]

Re: Right Shoulder down plane/Axis Tilt

Just having done some practice swings and really tried to 'feel' what I think I do I can only describe it as a feeling as if I push my left hip 'up' towards right field (or 1330 on a clock if 1200 was the target line). This drops my right shoulder down, shallows the club and then pulls everything round?

[BrianW]

Re: Right Shoulder down plane/Axis Tilt

Paul,

Did you see any of those "O" Factor videos, Robert Baker explains nicely how the hips assist with keeping the swing on path.

Golfonline Videos: The O-Factor

[takinitdeep]

Re: Right Shoulder down plane/Axis Tilt

In making the transition from the top, try a little pause which allows everything to gather together, then, dropping the right elbow to the right hip and staying behind the ball, point the butt end of the club down the line. Feel like you are hitting the ball with the butt end of the club from behind the ball through the ball etc.
Getting the lower body involved may be a mistake because 90% cannot grasp this concept and it may be better left for later in his progress. For now, dropping into the slot is more productive.

I'm working with a good pal of mine trying to straighten him out a little. On video he is roundhousing his shoulders and coming OTT and I want him to try and learn to get his right shoulder down and more of an axis tilt as he starts his downswing but although I can show him what he needs to he and I are having trouble getting him to 'feel' a good way of doing this

We've tried getting him to try bumping his hips but this sets up a big slide and he still roundhouses. We've tried left shoulder up and this is better but the clubface is still open into impact

The best way weve found so far that seems to work sporadically is having him feel like he swings up from the top of the swing such that his right shoulder drops (swing up to hit down) but does anyone have any other ideas/suggestions we can try?

[Rackster]

Re: Right Shoulder down plane/Axis Tilt

Right Elbow Leads the Right Forearm in the Downswing.

Like this?

http://http://www.golfdigest.com/ins...0505flick.html

[pnearn]

Re: Right Shoulder down plane/Axis Tilt

In making the transition from the top, try a little pause which allows everything to gather together, then, dropping the right elbow to the right hip and staying behind the ball, point the butt end of the club down the line. Feel like you are hitting the ball with the butt end of the club from behind the ball through the ball etc.
Getting the lower body involved may be a mistake because 90% cannot grasp this concept and it may be better left for later in his progress. For now, dropping into the slot is more productive.

I've tried that with him but in doing that move he still roundhouses a little and when he gets to impact the face is wide open. Theres no body motion in that action to square the face and I dont want him to have to learn to flip with his hands?

[pnearn]

Re: Right Shoulder down plane/Axis Tilt

Right Elbow Leads the Right Forearm in the Downswing.

And the right shoulder should drives the right elbow. Which means if the right shoulder comes out the right elbow comes out with it. OTT

[takinitdeep]

Re: Right Shoulder down plane/Axis Tilt

See my post above, its almost impossible for the right forearm to do anything else but follow the right elbow if it is dropped to the right hip with the butt end of the club leading ahead down the target line.

Right Elbow Leads the Right Forearm in the Downswing.

[pnearn]

Re: Right Shoulder down plane/Axis Tilt

See my post above, its almost impossible for the right forearm to do anything else but follow the right elbow if it is dropped to the right hip with the butt end of the club leading ahead down the target line.

OK, I see where youre coming from but for a high hcapper how do you then teach them not to chicken wing when they do this, or teach them how to square the face. If the butt of the club leads into impact wont the face be open?

I dont see how you can/should square the club face without using your body in some way?

[takinitdeep]

Re: Right Shoulder down plane/Axis Tilt

A very light grip pressure allows the hinging and unhinging of the wrists but add to that a move of the right knee laterally towards the left on the downswing brings the lower body into the motion.

OK, I see where youre coming from but for a high hcapper how do you then teach them not to chicken wing when they do this, or teach them how to square the face. If the butt of the club leads into impact wont the face be open?

I dont see how you can/should square the club face without using your body in some way?

[pnearn]

Re: Right Shoulder down plane/Axis Tilt

Just an update. Had a guy I play regularly with also look at my mates swing today and we had a real eureka moment with him. My other pal immediately spotted that he was making a 'fake' shoulder turn on the BS by just swinging his arms back and up

So he changed that to having him flatten his left wrist to start his takeaway ( a waggle, magic move type of motion that is being described in the other thread) followed by a full shoulder turn (left shoulder replaces right shoulder). The arms just went along for the ride

From that top of swing position he could then drive his shoulders down at the ball almost with ease and he started hitting some great shots, interspersed with dead pulls left. When we looked on the tape we could see he was still casting and going with his hands (flipping) so we had him feel like he was holding the flat left wrist position and using his right shoulder to drag that flat left wrist into the ball and out to right field

He started hitting little draws, much further than he was before, compressing the ball way better. Like a light going off. He then bought the 2 of us a couple of pints he was so chuffed

Interesting how it takes someone else to spot something so fundamental that could be causing difficulty in executing one of the basic motions. He couldnt get his right shoulder down plane and his right elbow tucked in because his shoulders hadnt turned properly in the BS ..

Tks for all the replies guys ..

[Chuck44]

Re: Right Shoulder down plane/Axis Tilt

There is a very simple solution to this problem. Golfers with this problem need to take their right shoulder to a place it's never been before, on plane or slightly under it. Simple solution is: imagine a line going straight across the toes of each foot. Yes. Parallel to the target line. At the top of the backswing........and this is key, focus on not allowing the right shoulder to cross over the toe line. This will not only force the rock skipping motion down the line of the right shoulder but it will also force the himp bump. (You will find it very difficult to keep that right shoulder inside the toe line without getting the hips out of the way). Try it without a club for 10-15 swings then work it in slowly. This simple "thought" will work wonders for you.

[msklar92]

Re: Right Shoulder down plane/Axis Tilt

what is the general ball flight?