Distance from ball and point of contact

[ubizmo]

This is something that I struggle with.

As I've mentioned in other threads, after every iron shot I examine the face of the iron to see where the point of contact was, because there will usually be a bit of residue of grass mashed at that point. Not surprisingly, when I just struck the ball well, the residue is right at the sweet spot. More often, regrettably, when I feel that I hit the ball *fairly* well, the point of impact is shifted toward the toe of the club a bit. Sometimes even a "good" shot, by my standards, is shifted a little (up to a centimeter, roughly). If it's nearer to the toe than that, it was almost certainly a bad shot.

Seemingly, my clubhead flight path is closer to me than I think it's going to be.

I've tried setting up with the ball near the hosel, but that doesn't work. I still tend to strike a bit toward the toe.

What *does* work is, in the setup, after I've established what seems to me to be the "right" distance from the ball, I just "snuggle up" to it a bit, i.e., a tiny forward shuffle with both feet. If I do it right, I'll hit the sweet spot and the crowds roar. But it has to be very subtle, because if I overdo it, I'll chunk it really bad.

For my particular swing, this seems to be one of the most important variables, but I don't yet feel that I have a way to get it right every time.

I know one method (a bit weird to do in public, but that's okay) is to hold the club straight out, horizontal to the ground, at shoulder height, then without bending the arms, bring it down to belt buckle level, with the club still parallel to the ground, and the butt of the club a hand's width from the body. Then tilt forward, keeping a straight spine, until the club rests on the ground. That establishes the correct distance of the club from the body, and maintains the 90* angle of club shaft and spine. Then you just move to the ball, maintaining that angle and distance from body. I've tried this, but it doesn't work for me consistently--sometimes it puts the club just too close.

So I'm wondering if anyone else has any methods for this aspect of setup.

[Martin Levac]

Re: Distance from ball and point of contact

Do you practice? If not, then you must figure out some method that will produce the same result time after time. Good luck. If I knew of a method that produced the same result time after time, I'd play professionally to make money with it. This aspect is part of the knowledge one gains with practice and experience.

[ubizmo]

Re: Distance from ball and point of contact

Do you practice?

Yes. Perhaps not effectively, but I practice.

It's possible, of course, that distance from the ball is not the thing that's making trouble.

[golfndawg]

Re: Distance from ball and point of contact

Depending on what kind of shot-

The closer you are to the ball the lower the ball flight.....

The further away the higher.

Just what I understand.

Good luck,

[GoNavy]

Re: Distance from ball and point of contact

What is more bothersome then hitting toe or heel hits, is that bit you mentioned about mushing grass on the face to tell where you hit...not good...that means you are hitting slightly behind the ball or sweeping, NOT hitting down and through as you should...ball first, should not be any grass unless you are in deep rough. I think if you fixed this aspect, getting better center hits would probably be forthcoming without much trouble.

My guess is you are coming over the top slightly, this tends to make you pull your arms in towards the body and not shift the weight properly, hense the slightly behind the ball contact. Work on a proper weight shift and swing from the inside, you can use contact tape, available at most pro shops, or golf shops, to see where you make contact, once you start hitting the ball first, then tuff.

[Martin Levac]

Re: Distance from ball and point of contact

Yes. Perhaps not effectively, but I practice.

It's possible, of course, that distance from the ball is not the thing that's making trouble.

The next questions are, what do you practice and how much do you practice?

The first question is easy to answer but apparently, that's not the case for the majority of us. This is golf so I think it would be wise to practice golf and not, for instance, cycling. I'm exaggerating here but the point is that many will disregard the most important in favor of other less important aspects of golf. They'll practice swinging this way, swinging that way, swinging all kinds of ways. They will disregard that for two reasons, either because it's taken for granted or because it's thought of as luck. I'm talking about proper contact.

In the rules of golf, they speak of the stroke. In all other texts, they speak of the swing. The announcers speak of the swing. This website speaks of the swing. Every other website I've visited speak of the swing. All teachers speak of the swing. The rules are right, all the other texts are wrong.

We take it for granted because we think that by swinging the club in a particular way, we'll automatically strike the ball properly. We think of it as luck because we just don't understand how it works. In either case, no progress can be made. For progress to be made, we must not take it for granted and we must not think of it as luck. We must think of it as something that must be done in order to send the ball to the target. The alternative is that we don't need to strike the ball properly to send it to the target.

Golf is a game of skill. Practice improves skill. Therefore, practicing playing golf will improve skill in playing golf. The first purpose and the ultimate purpose in golf is to send the ball to a target using a club. It's that purpose when teeing off, it's that purpose when approaching the green, it's that purpose when putting to the hole. It's the same purpose every single time we strike the ball. I think that practicing playing golf should consist of the same thing: Sending a ball to a target using a club. Unfortunately, many practice sending the ball nowhere and anywhere. As a matter of fact, if you're sending anything else but a ball to anything else but a target using anything else but a club, you're not playing golf.

Certainly, because we use many clubs and not just one, we must practice each and every club to become proficient with each and every one. Furthermore, we must practice those shots that we have difficulty with so that when faced with that shot, we have the ability to make them. For those that are lazy, using fewer clubs is a good idea because it's easier to carry fewer clubs and it's quicker to practice with fewer clubs as well. Not to mention that it makes selecting clubs on the course so much easier.

Things that help in practice and in play. Maintain a stable base on which you swing. That means, plant your feet firmly in the ground. Maintain focus with your eyes on the ball throughout. Maintain control of the club at all times. Focus on making proper contact above all else.


The second question, how much do you practice, is not so easy to answer. That's because we all learn at different rates. I think it's safe to say that since golf is such a difficult game to learn let alone master, it requires hours upon hours of practice just to become good enough to strike the ball properly. Consider your current ability and see how fast you learn. That will give you a good idea of how much practice you need to improve. Even if you don't want to practice that much, a little practice is better than none.

As I said, distance from the ball is one thing that you learn with practice and experience. If that's not the problem you're having, no matter, practice can only help. I could trick you into practicing by telling you that the tip I'll give you doesn't work unless you practice it extensively. I think that the amount of practice you'd do just to make that tip work is enough in itself to make you improve.

[BrianW]

Re: Distance from ball and point of contact

Every golfer has hit a ball off the sweetspot a number of times. That great feeling of effortless power as if the ball was not even there, that great ball flight.

Now, if we can all do it why can't we do it more often? Our subconscious mind will know how to do it but our conscious mind will normally confuse the issue with it's never ending doubts and analysis that confuse our muscular synchronisation.

So, we will need to train our subconscious mind into remembering all the millions of interconnected signals that the brain carries out to control the muscles, ligaments and sinews that can re-produce the correct set of actions to bring the clubface into perfect contact with the ball, again and again. As Mr Levac suggests this can only be done by practice, however we must be practicing the correct things.

Where to start? I would suggest that the first thing is to create a sound repeatable swing. Sound in that it is capable of bringing the clubface to the ball with the face square and in an effective manner that will provide the best performance for the individual. Repeatable in that you can do it again and again without cluttering your conscious mind in the process.

I think most of us understand that good balance, grip, club positioning, lag and body movement all work together in producing a good golf swing. Another small but important thing to understand is where you are striking the ball on the clubface, use impact tape or spray and work towards getting a grouping as small as possible, once you can do that it is not such a big objective to repeat that grouping in the centre of the club face.

[ubizmo]

Re: Distance from ball and point of contact

What is more bothersome then hitting toe or heel hits, is that bit you mentioned about mushing grass on the face to tell where you hit...not good...that means you are hitting slightly behind the ball or sweeping, NOT hitting down and through as you should...ball first, should not be any grass unless you are in deep rough. I think if you fixed this aspect, getting better center hits would probably be forthcoming without much trouble.

My guess is you are coming over the top slightly, this tends to make you pull your arms in towards the body and not shift the weight properly, hense the slightly behind the ball contact. Work on a proper weight shift and swing from the inside, you can use contact tape, available at most pro shops, or golf shops, to see where you make contact, once you start hitting the ball first, then tuff.

Thank you, that's very interesting. It never occurred to me to question the very presence of mashed grass on the club face. In my most recent video of my swing, Putfile - Two Okay Swings, I don't seem to be coming over the top, but these were two swings that resulted in pretty good shots.

Hmmm....I have the same build as Angel Cabrera, but somehow I don't look as good!

[ubizmo]

Re: Distance from ball and point of contact

The next questions are, what do you practice and how much do you practice?

When I go to the practice range, I typically bring 2 or 3 clubs, and I get a "medium" bucket of balls, which is about 45. My goal is to take a club and try to hit three consecutive "good" shots, i.e., good contact, fairly straight. I'm not looking for perfect shots, just shots that wouldn't obviously get me into trouble in a round of golf, and no "wasted" shots. That means I don't count shots with good contact that are 30* off line, or shots that just buzz through the grass for 30 yards, but straight. But if, for example, I have my 7 iron and I hit it straight for only 120 yards, I count that as acceptable, even though it's short, because it probably wouldn't cause a train wreck. Moreover, judging distance is erratic with range balls anyway. Even I can feel that they vary a lot.

I work on clubs that I think need work. Today it was my 3w and hybrid 5i. My regular 5i has been pretty good lately, but I thought I'd try the hybrid, because I when I hit it properly I get more distance with it. And the 5i is my longest *trustworthy* (more or less) fairway club.

I do this sort of thing about 3 or 4 times a week. I play a full round twice a week, generally.

[golfndawg]

Re: Distance from ball and point of contact

I would like to say 1 thing that I noticed on your swing(it is the wrist hinge) ).It looks like you have a strong grip going by the way the right hand is on the club ,I can't tell about the left hand (could be wrong)-but when I do see the left hand on the backswing it looks like it is really bowed (hinging back instead of up - closed face all the way through).If the left hand is strong on the club ,got to have some cup in the wrist at the top(not bowed).

Just my opinion from what I've learned here and what I believe I saw on the video.

[Martin Levac]

Re: Distance from ball and point of contact

Todd, when I grip the club, I grip it in front of me with the club upright then lower it down to address position. Try it.

[Shamed04]

Re: Distance from ball and point of contact

next time you are at the range and you are hitting alot of balls towards the toe...set up to the ball with it out on the toe and make your swing...your mind will unconsiously make you move the club out and bring the ball into the sweetspot...try doing this for a few shots then go back to your regular setup and see if it has made a difference

[ubizmo]

Re: Distance from ball and point of contact

Thanks for the helpful suggestions. Martin, I tried it as you suggested today, with good results. Shamed04, that's an interesting approach, which I'll try if the problem returns. As I posted in another thread ("Best practice session ever"), it went away today by working on full extension right through to finish. But things have a way of coming back, so I'll keep your idea in mind.

[ubizmo]

Re: Distance from ball and point of contact

Update....

This problem....striking the ball a bit closer to the toe and losing distance, keeps coming back. I seem to fix it for a while, then it's back.

The most obvious thing was to try standing a bit closer, but that seldom worked. Today at practice I tried something else. I'd set up in what felt like the "right" way, then I'd just pull my hands in toward my body a little bit, and *then* move forward to get the center behind the ball. Now I don't know why that should be any different from just standing a little closer, but it sure worked better. Weird, but I'll go with it until I need to try something else.