Loosing It halfway through 18 holes?...horrible slice?

[xiggy]

ok guys this tends to happen to me a lot and i seriously dont know why...see i normally play fairly well (like 49's on 9)..but sometimes ill just hit the ball and first off the launch angle is wayyyy off from where i was aimed and it has some slice after that...and i dont know why...i do a very simple iron swing (backswing open face...close through on impact)...now this happened to me from hole 4 to 9..and before and after that (1-3 ..10-18) i started hitting straight again (its only my irons)...but somtimes even my chip shots would do this....now please list off as many things as you can that make a ball go right

i know this so far

throw hips forward (used to do that when i was younger)
open face
look up
bring foot up and around before through ball
killing it


what else?

thanks!

[Martin Levac]

Re: Loosing It halfway through 18 holes?...horrible slice?

Take a step back, get some perspective. How do you feel when you begin to lose it half way through? Are you tired, can you focus properly, are you hungry, did you eat heavy food at half time, are you strong enough to endure 5 hours of golf? Alternatively, do you practice?

Consider a round of golf like you'd consider a training session in the gym.

[snowman]

Re: Loosing It halfway through 18 holes?...horrible slice?

Go to the range to sort out your swing path/ball flight, could be a number of things, open face, misalignment, out-to-in swing path etc etc. Make sure that you don't just beat balls at the range, set up to a target (between two flags is good to imagine a fairway. Go through your preshot routine for every ball (you do have a PS routine??).

Once you have a satisafctory ball flight. Hit alternating shots, i.e. Driver (or whatever you take off the tee) the 7i, then driver again. This helps with consistancy and tempo, i.e swing a driver at the same tempo as a 7i and let the longer shaft do the work at picking up speed.

Once you are happy, note your tendancies, do you fade your driver or is it a slight slice, are your irons straight or fading or drawing.

Now when at the course, set up for your tendancies and swing, if you are slicing a bit more than usual, do not try and fix it on the course, just stick with what you have that day and aim a little more to the left. The moment you start trying to fix the swing on the course is the moment you get into trouble. Just let go and trust the swing that you had at the range. How many times have you had a few bad holes in a row while trying to fix your swing and then said "what the hell just swing the thing" to yourself and striped one down the middle? I wasn't because you stopped caring, it was becuase you let go and let yourself swing the club.

This is the sort of thing I am doing, it is hard work to switch off and trust your swing, and it was working well for me off the tee today (11/14 fairways hit), with my irons I wasn't so good, but that is what I will be practicing to increase my consistancy.

Good luck.

[xiggy]

Re: Loosing It halfway through 18 holes?...horrible slice?

ok first off...i have a great tollerance for golf...i golfed 9 holes a day after a whole day of school for golf team..and now its summer and im almost doing 18 holes a day as it is....and normally i dont do too bad during that either...now i think it may be a bit of an outside in...because i kind of refreshed myslef after hole nine (cleared any negative thoughts and scare that i was going to hit the ball in a horrible slice)..and i was making sure i played the ball out a little further which ended up feeling like i almost had to reach out just slightly to hit the ball..which ended up in a smoother swing path i believe so yes ill try some of your things and see what happens thank you!

and yes i do think the problem was that i did try to fix my swing...becuase i only had one bad hit on hole 4...(curved horribly to the right)...then i had a bad drive (not really bad just barely didnt make it) and that just set me off i think...i think i let anger control me form then until hole 9....so i think that could have been a problem too..as long as i do remember my normal swing i tend to keep it going great! thanks!

and see another thing is the hit was sooo bad i had to resort to litterally keeping my hands in front of the ball and hitting a locked wrist chip shot until hole 9...yeh lol

[Martin Levac]

Re: Loosing It halfway through 18 holes?...horrible slice?

You didn't say if you practiced.

[chessbum]

Re: Loosing It halfway through 18 holes?...horrible slice?

Dear xiggy,

About a year and a half ago, I was afflicted with this same problem. Everything you described also described my problem.

I visited three golf pros and it really didn't give me a "smoking gun" as to the reason.

I worked on it myself and eventually worked it out. I made a list of some of the things that helped me work through it.

I offer this list only as an aid for you to consider for yourself.

They are:

• MAKE A FULL SHOULDER TURN
• Keep hands low
• Left arm straight at impact (Avoid chicken wing position at all cost)
• Stand far enough away from ball
• Reach up with hands in the backswing
• Minimize hip movement, ESPECIALLY any lateral movement
• LOW AND SLOW ON THE TAKEAWAY AND IN A STRAIGHT LINE!!!
• Shorten the backswing a bit

Two of the most predominent issues I think were making sure I get a FULL Shoulder turn. I had a tendency to swing the arms but the shoulders were not turning. Also, make sure you are not DUCKING the left shoulder. This makes it feel like a full shoulder turn but in fact it's not.

Secondly, make sure you are not blocking the shots with your wrists.

Give some of these hints a try. Take the list to the driving range and play with them. See if you can INTENTIALLY hit the shot you are talking about. IF you can, you should be able to figure some of it out. Believe me, these hints were derived by pure sweat, pain and tenacity!!!

I hope it helps.

Let me know,

Chessbum....

[xiggy]

Re: Loosing It halfway through 18 holes?...horrible slice?

thanks guys im already hitting them fine again...but ill probably print this out and keep them in my golfcart just to make sure i dont forget

and yes i do practice...lol just going out and playing is practice plus putting and chipping afterwards

[Martin Levac]

Re: Loosing It halfway through 18 holes?...horrible slice?

I meant practice, not play. The two are different. Play is for fun, practice is for skill. I meant the kind of practice where you hit a bucket or two then go home and think about your practice session. The next day, you play. That kind of practice. I don't mean the kind of practice where you hit a small bucket then go play, that's just a warm up. I mean the kind of practice where you dedicate time and effort to improve your skill at playing golf.

Have you ever gone to the range to hit 800 balls? 500? 100? I have. 800 is too much, I had ten blisters on my hands when I stopped. 500 is just right, I learn much and improve my skill much. 100 is too few, I barely get in the groove. I don't mean to brag, I only mean to share my experience so that you understand the kind of practice I'm speaking of.

After 500 balls, suffice to say that I got rid of a whole bunch of useless so called fundamental techniques. All I kept was what worked and that doesn't amount to much on a page. For instance, I learned that I can address the ball and hit it without wasting any time with an engineered pre-shot routine and still produce an excellent result. If I can do it at the range, I can do it anywhere. I learned that there is only one thing truly important about golf, it's the interaction between the club and the ball. Everything else is just fluff. I could do everything wrong and if all I did right was strike the ball properly, I'd still play well.

I'm done experimenting with this or that technique, now I just use what works. I realise that you may still be experimenting with all kinds of techniques but if all you do is play, you'll learn at very slow pace. Expecially when compared to what you could learn with extensive practice sessions.

[snowman]

Re: Loosing It halfway through 18 holes?...horrible slice?

Have you ever gone to the range to hit 800 balls? 500? 100? I have. 800 is too much, I had ten blisters on my hands when I stopped. 500 is just right, I learn much and improve my skill much. 100 is too few, I barely get in the groove. I don't mean to brag, I only mean to share my experience so that you understand the kind of practice I'm speaking of.

I know this has worked for you but 500 balls is rather excessive. I must take hours to line up to a target and then send the ball there, analyze the result, re focus and then start again. Do you take breaks every 25 balls or so? You must be at the practice range from dawn until dusk. How can your mind stay focussed for this length of time.

Practice is all about quality. Using 50 balls to go through a proper pre-shot routine (and post shot routine) on each, picking out precise targets and landing areas. Switching clubs frequently so not to get into false groove (anyone can hit 100 balls with their driver until they stripe one and then continue striping them, as the brain figures out the rhythm through all the trial and error, you didn't get 100 shots off the tee in a round of golf).

Using 500 balls and swinging over and over again using trail and error is more harmful than good. Sure you get into a groove, but how do you take that to the course? Your brain will have totally forgotten the elements of timing that were worked out at the range, whereas working on solid swing keys will carry over to your course game.

How come it takes you 100 balls to get into a groove? That seems like a lot, what happens if you turn up for a round and don't have time to hit 100 balls before hand? Do you finally hit a decent shot on 18 and say to yourself "yeah I'm in the groove now"?

I would recommend to the original poster that they keep the practices short and interesting with a plan in mind, beating 500 balls in a row is more detrimental to both the body, the swing and the golfing mind.

[Martin Levac]

Re: Loosing It halfway through 18 holes?...horrible slice?

I know this has worked for you but 500 balls is rather excessive. I must take hours to line up to a target and then send the ball there, analyze the result, re focus and then start again. Do you take breaks every 25 balls or so? You must be at the practice range from dawn until dusk. How can your mind stay focussed for this length of time.

Practice is all about quality. Using 50 balls to go through a proper pre-shot routine (and post shot routine) on each, picking out precise targets and landing areas. Switching clubs frequently so not to get into false groove (anyone can hit 100 balls with their driver until they stripe one and then continue striping them, as the brain figures out the rhythm through all the trial and error, you didn't get 100 shots off the tee in a round of golf).

Using 500 balls and swinging over and over again using trail and error is more harmful than good. Sure you get into a groove, but how do you take that to the course? Your brain will have totally forgotten the elements of timing that were worked out at the range, whereas working on solid swing keys will carry over to your course game.

How come it takes you 100 balls to get into a groove? That seems like a lot, what happens if you turn up for a round and don't have time to hit 100 balls before hand? Do you finally hit a decent shot on 18 and say to yourself "yeah I'm in the groove now"?

I would recommend to the original poster that they keep the practices short and interesting with a plan in mind, beating 500 balls in a row is more detrimental to both the body, the swing and the golfing mind.

I can stay focused because I've had a lot of practice staying focused. False groove? 100 shots off the tee? In order to improve skill, one must repeat. That is practice. Practice has worked and keeps working for literally billions of people all the time. If it's false, how can my skill have improved then? It must be magic. I pick a precise target, I just do it 500 times during a session. It takes me 100 balls to begin to improve my skill, that's the groove I'm speaking of. Less than 100 balls is just a warm up before a round. With practice, more is more. Only by repeating can I take what I learn to the course. Experiment, learn, practice. Without practice, there's no perfection of what I've learned so I can't take that to the course.

From websters:

Practice

3. repeated performance or systematic exercise for the purpose of acquiring skill or proficiency: Practice makes perfect.

4. condition arrived at by experience or exercise: She refused to play the piano, because she was out of practice.


As we can see, the purpose of practice is clear, as is its mechanism. Through practice we improve skill. More harmful than good? How did I improve my skill then? I must be special, not like the rest of the world. Speaking of special, here's the definition of an expert:

From Websters:

Expert

1. a person who has special skill or knowledge in some particular field; specialist; authority: a language expert.

(cont')
Having, involving, or demonstrating great skill, dexterity, or knowledge as the result of experience or training. See synonyms at proficient.

Expertise

(cont')
skillfulness by virtue of possessing special knowledge


Now the picture is clear. Through practice, we improve skill. Through more practice, we gain special knowledge and thus expertise. Golf is a very difficult game, obviously. In fact, golf is so difficult that it takes hours upon hours of practice just to be able to strike the ball properly. I know, I took hours upon hours to learn just that. To advise to keep practice sessions short is to advise to remain mediocre, in my opinion. Having said that, a little practice is better than none. So if we can't dedicate that much time to practice then a bucket here and there is better than nothing but it will not produce the same result that extensive practice sessions will produce. I know, I did both.

Indeed, practice is all about quality. I've gotten rid of everything that prevented me from attaining this quality. I did that by hitting ball after ball to the same target. If I must hit 500 balls, I must be quick about it or I'll be there all day. So, every useless movement or technique went out. I only kept what worked. If that's not quality, I guess I'll stop practicing. After all, how can I produce quality if I don't practice or don't practice enough?

snowman, have you ever practiced like that? How is golf different from any other activity? In every sport I know of, the athletes practice for hours on end day after day. Why should it be different with golf? A basketball player will practice free throws for hours. A baseball player will practice sending the ball to the catcher's mitt for hours. A footbal player will practice striking the ball and sending it to the top corner for hours. A curling player will practice his delivery for hours. A cyclist will practice keeping his balance for hours. A runner will practice his gait and basically run for hours. A tennis player will practice his service for hours. Etc.

There's an old joke about a guy who wants to go to Carnegie Hall.


What is so different about golf?

[snowman]

Re: Loosing It halfway through 18 holes?...horrible slice?

........

My point is practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.

There is no need to be condescending and quote Webster's dictionary, I am well aware of the definition of those words.

I used to practice just like you, grab 2 large buckets and swing away with one club until I could get great results. In the end you are just raking and beating. I prefer to go to the range with one or two things in mind, usually just mental keys that help me let go and trust my swing rather than trying to force myself to swing.

I am not saying that you are wrong though, different strokes for different folks, but what I was suggesting to the original poster is what has worked for me. Spend a little time, switching between clubs (as that is what you do on the course), take breaks, set up like you are on the course and enjoy yourself.

I think a better way to lower your golf score is to spend some time practicing ball striking and then devote the same amount of time to chipping and pitching and the same for putting (therefore a 1/3 time on each).

This is just my opinion though, the original poster or anyone else who is reading this thread can go away and find what works for them.

[Shamed04]

Re: Loosing It halfway through 18 holes?...horrible slice?

I dont mean to criticize anyone but I concider myself to be very fit..6' 160lbs lean...and i start to get tired after hitting 100 balls...any more than that and i probably wouldnt be able to feel my muscles...keep your practicing to a minimum with maximum focus and you will see the greatest improvement...make a goal for your range session and stick to it...work on one thing at a time and do not overdue it..

[Martin Levac]

Re: Loosing It halfway through 18 holes?...horrible slice?

My point is practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.

There is no need to be condescending and quote Webster's dictionary, I am well aware of the definition of those words.

I used to practice just like you, grab 2 large buckets and swing away with one club until I could get great results. In the end you are just raking and beating. I prefer to go to the range with one or two things in mind, usually just mental keys that help me let go and trust my swing rather than trying to force myself to swing.

I am not saying that you are wrong though, different strokes for different folks, but what I was suggesting to the original poster is what has worked for me. Spend a little time, switching between clubs (as that is what you do on the course), take breaks, set up like you are on the course and enjoy yourself.

I think a better way to lower your golf score is to spend some time practicing ball striking and then devote the same amount of time to chipping and pitching and the same for putting (therefore a 1/3 time on each).

This is just my opinion though, the original poster or anyone else who is reading this thread can go away and find what works for them.

I don't mean to be condescending, my apology.


The term "perfect practice makes perfect" presumes that one must know perfect before practicing. One can't know perfect until one has practiced sufficiently. And if one knows perfect, then one can stop practicing.

The term "perfect practice makes perfect" is based on the false premise that practice makes permanent. I've demonstrated time after time that if practice did make permanent, the pros would stop practicing. Which is obviously not the case, they practice hours upon hours to maintain the perfection that they have achieved through even more previous practice.

Perhaps saying that "perfect practice makes perfect" is a way of emphasizing the use of proper and correct technique, there is no need for such emphasis. The very nature of golf requires the use of proper and correct technique, otherwise we're not playing golf. Infortunately, many still don't know what that nature is, obviously. If only they took a step back to think, they'd realise that it is indeed very simple. In fact, all I need to know I can learn from the rules of golf.

We don't need to know perfection to start practicing, all we need is to start practicing. Through practice, we achieve perfection. The alternative is that practice does not work and we will never achieve perfection so we might as well stop doing that. I quoted Websters to point out that we know exactly what practice is and we know it so well that we officially define its purpose and mechanism. Note that there is not one definition that states that "perfect practice makes perfect" or "practice makes permanent". The only place we find that statement is in golf discussion.

I practiced all kinds of ways, including taking a couple of buckets or just a half bucket. The most productive has always been when I hit 500 balls, never fewer than that. Needless to say, I don't improve my skill one bit if I don't practice. I should speak of Vijay but I think we all know how much time he devotes to practice.

The contrary to "perfect practice make perfect" is "imperfect practice makes imperfect". Or if you prefer, "flawed practice makes flawed". We'd be very stupid indeed to practice making errors for hours on end. But such is the nature of practice. It is through making errors that we know how to make them and furthermore how to correct them. There's a saying "you don't learn anything from winning". It comes from the fact that we learn from our mistakes.

I've seen players make the same mistake time after time on the range. For example, players who fear casting will continue to cast the club because they will never think to willfully cast the club, thus will never learn what happens when they do cast the club. Their perspective is an illusion because they have never tried what they fear for fear of failing. They were told that casting the club was bad and they must never do it, otherwise they would not swing properly. One funny thing I learned through practice is that maintaining a flat left wrist on the backswing and on the downswing to maintain a 90* angle between the left arm and the club feels exactly like casting the club. Had I not tried that, I would not have known.

Had I kept my practice sessions short, I wouldn't have known many things I now know. I would not have learned that special knowledge about what casting the club feels like. It is through lengthy practice sessions that I began to experiment with taboo methods and techniques to realise that no technique is taboo when learning so I tried them all and kept only what worked. Had I kept my practice sessions short, I would not have had enough time to try everything.

A little practice is, nevertheless, better than no practice at all. But, it will never produce the same or as much result that extensive practice sessions can produce.

[Shamed04]

Re: Loosing It halfway through 18 holes?...horrible slice?

I think what you are missing here is that not everyone that goes out to the range knows what they are doing....yes they may have a good understanding of what the golf swing should be...but they cannot see what they are doing and therefore cannot analyze themselves properly, therefore they wind up "practicing" on the wrong areas which can make things worse...trial and error do not always work either.
If one was to go to the range and practice hitting hundreds of balls based only on trial and error they would find soemthing that would work...but the fact is the swing they found is far from where they actually need to be and they have most likely compromised setup, plane, etc. to the point where they are hitting balls great...but they are still making a bad swing and the next time they go to hit balls they will not be able to make the same swing they worked hours on b/c it was so technical it cant be repeated...unless you practice perfectly i.e. practice all the right things, you will never acheive that perfect swing you are in search of...hitting a ton of balls does not guarentee that eventually you will have a perfect swing, unless of course you have a coach working with you the whole way

practice perfectly to acheive perfection...just plain practice alot and you will have alot more problems

p.s. I think 70% of your practice should be devoted to your short game if, practice on the range efficiently and you will get the best results...hitting 500 balls with your wedge or putter and you may achieve perfection

[snowman]

Re: Loosing It halfway through 18 holes?...horrible slice?

I think what you are missing here is that not everyone that goes out to the range knows what they are doing....yes they may have a good understanding of what the golf swing should be...but they cannot see what they are doing and therefore cannot analyze themselves properly, therefore they wind up "practicing" on the wrong areas which can make things worse...trial and error do not always work either.
If one was to go to the range and practice hitting hundreds of balls based only on trial and error they would find soemthing that would work...but the fact is the swing they found is far from where they actually need to be and they have most likely compromised setup, plane, etc. to the point where they are hitting balls great...but they are still making a bad swing and the next time they go to hit balls they will not be able to make the same swing they worked hours on b/c it was so technical it cant be repeated...unless you practice perfectly i.e. practice all the right things, you will never acheive that perfect swing you are in search of...hitting a ton of balls does not guarentee that eventually you will have a perfect swing, unless of course you have a coach working with you the whole way

practice perfectly to acheive perfection...just plain practice alot and you will have alot more problems

p.s. I think 70% of your practice should be devoted to your short game if, practice on the range efficiently and you will get the best results...hitting 500 balls with your wedge or putter and you may achieve perfection

I think we may be on the same page mate!

For great results: 1/3 time ball striking
1/3 time pitching/sand/chipping
1/3 time putting