Why can't I take divots

[acq111]

I feel like I'm robbing myself of a pure strike, and sacrificing distance. I have never really been able to pinch the ball how I want to. I've always been a sweeper. I don't like hitting 5 irons into greens where mos people are hitting 6 or 7 irons. I have a good swing speed around 103 with a five iron. Just can't seem to get up any turf. I can do it with my sand wedge and thats it. I tried the tee in front of the ball drill trying to knock the tee ouot of the ground. Any other drills or something I may be doing wrong without seeing my swing that anyone can think of would be greatly appreciated....

Thanks in advance,

Nick Acquaviva
Manteno, Il

[Broadus]

Re: Why can't I take divots

A couple of things come to mind. How about ball position? Do you position the ball for a 5i shot a bit ahead of where the club bottoms out?

Also, is your swing more around your body as you may hit a wood? Golf Digest had a pointer about visualizing a ferris wheel for iron swings and a merry-go-round for woods.

Bill

[acq111]

Re: Why can't I take divots

I guess my swing is a little more around my body. When I try to make it a little steeper it feels like i'm almost coming over the top. I have more of a one plane swing. I have experimented with ball position and usually I play a 5 iron slightly ahead of center. When I conciously try to make a divot I usually fat it. Should I try to steepen my plane with my irons a little?

[Broadus]

Re: Why can't I take divots

Sorry, but I've already told you more than I know. Maybe someone with more knowledge will jump in here.

Having said that, though, I don't think that "trying" to make a divot accomplishes what you want. "Trying" gets in the way of a good swing happening.

What kind of distance do you get with your 5 iron?

Bill

[vp27519]

Re: Why can't I take divots

I'm working on maintaining lag as I am casting from the top of the downswing.

Coach wants me to work on my pitching more so the long game, as this will give me the feel required. I've noticed I'm taking a divot now as a result. Feel like you are punching the ball.

[Martin Levac]

Re: Why can't I take divots

What's your goal? To take a divot or to strike downward on the ball? The two are not automatically linked.

The purpose of striking downward on the ball is to strike the ball first, the ground second. The ultimate purpose of that is to prevent the ground from affecting the clubhead before it strikes the ball. If the clubhead strikes anything before the ball, it will be affected unpredictably. We don't know how well we will strike the ball and subsequently where it will go. If you've ever hit the ground before the ball, you know exactly how unpredictable it can be. Not to mention that you lose all your power, too.

So, strike downward on the ball. At some point, I was sweeping the ball off the turf. The result was no divot, short distance but still pretty straight because I didn't hit the ground. My technique then was to turn the shoulders faster to generate more power. The end result is that I was lifting the club before it had any time to dig into the ground. In effect, I was trying to help the ball up. I changed all that.

Now I accelerate the hands faster to generate more power. But I maintain my shoulder turn speed or slow it down a bit relative to the hands. In effect, I'm facing the ball a bit more when I strike it. It feels like my shoulders are lagging behind. It allows the club to go a little lower before it follows back up after I struck the ball.

Something that helps me strike downward on the ball is keeping the right leg bent on the backswing (I'm right handed, the right leg is the back leg). If I straighten it on the backswing, the only way I can move is down. If I'm set up to strike the ball properly when I stay level, I could end up chunking it if I bend my leg on the downswing. If I keep it bent on the backswing, I'll have the option to push with that leg to move up. Keeping that leg bent on the backswing does a few more good things such as for posture, power and control of the club.

As others have mentioned, ball position can determine how you strike the ball. Move the ball and see what that does to your address position. Check how the clubhead lies on the ground. Check the loft as it changes when you change its position according to the ball position. Extrapolate this change to what will happen when you strike the ball in different positions. The ball back will tend to deloft the club when you strike the ball. You will tend to strike downward on the ball. It will produce a bit more spin and distance because of it. It will also produce a longer divot.

So, accelerate the hands and keep the right leg bent.

[takinitdeep]

Re: Why can't I take divots

Two things will help you:
1. don't sway on the backswing, pivot upper body against a stable lower body, the shoulders turning will take care of weight transfer. Don't move off the ball. For driver, a little spine tilt to the right; for irons, stay centered over the ball.
2. On the downswing, make sure your right elbow is brushing your right side close.
This should put you on an inside out swing path and will have your right shoulder down and through at impact.

I feel like I'm robbing myself of a pure strike, and sacrificing distance. I have never really been able to pinch the ball how I want to. I've always been a sweeper. I don't like hitting 5 irons into greens where mos people are hitting 6 or 7 irons. I have a good swing speed around 103 with a five iron. Just can't seem to get up any turf. I can do it with my sand wedge and thats it. I tried the tee in front of the ball drill trying to knock the tee ouot of the ground. Any other drills or something I may be doing wrong without seeing my swing that anyone can think of would be greatly appreciated....

Thanks in advance,

Nick Acquaviva
Manteno, Il

[BrianW]

Re: Why can't I take divots

You should only be making divots with your mid to short clubs, longer clubs should be sweeping the ball away.

Now! it's worth understanding why you should be hitting down onto the ball with some clubs and not others, then you can adopt the best method to achieve it. "Sweetspot" !! That's the reason you want to do it, nothing else.

The ball should contact the clubface on the sweet spot to promote maximum flight performance. Why then do we need to hit down with some and not others? that's a good question. We do it so we can contact the ball with the club's sweet spot. Lets take longer clubs (Not the driver though, that's a special case) they have less loft so when contacting the ball just as the club is approaching the bottom of it's arc they can hit in the centre of the face. This is not the same with mid to short irons, these have steeper lofts and if the ball was hit at the arc bottom it would make contact on or near the leading edge of the clubface, thinning the shot. So! to hit the sweet spot with a lofted club the face must be descending before the arc low point and contacting the ball above it's equator on a downward path, this will allow the sweet spot to make sound contact. The resulting divot is merely a symptom of the downward strike and does nothing to promote ball flight. Coming back to the driver, we want to hit the ball as the club's arc has bottomed out and is starting to ascend with a slight upward sweeping contact.

So! how can we promote these sweeping and downward strikes? We can do it by ball and body positioning. For the sweeping action the ball position is forward in the stance and the sternum (chest bone) is positioned just behind the ball (further back for the driver) this will bring back your centre of gravity and position the swing arc bottoms. For the descending blow the ball is positioned centre of stance with the sternum just ahead of the ball, this pushes the COG and swing arc forward.

Clear as mud Eh!

[ubizmo]

Re: Why can't I take divots

It seems to me that the difference between clubs, as far as divots are concerned, is not so much the loft but the shaft length of the clubs. The more lofted clubs are shorter, which means that the path followed by the club head has a shorter radius, making it's angle of descent and ascent through the impact zone steeper. If I'm right, then if you had a set of single-length clubs, you'd get the same divot with all of them, regardless of loft.

[BrianW]

Re: Why can't I take divots

It seems to me that the difference between clubs, as far as divots are concerned, is not so much the loft but the shaft length of the clubs. The more lofted clubs are shorter, which means that the path followed by the club head has a shorter radius, making it's angle of descent and ascent through the impact zone steeper. If I'm right, then if you had a set of single-length clubs, you'd get the same divot with all of them, regardless of loft.

Hi Tod,

You could hit a sweeping blow or descending blow with a club of any length. It's a matter of where the low point of the arc is in relation to the ball. You could also make a divot with any club in the set, including the driver if you wanted. Would you want to though? if not, why not? Consider using a 1 iron with the ball centre of stance, hands ahead of the ball and weight forward, what type of shot would that produce?

Loft creates a glancing blow to the ball, the greater the loft the more the ball will slide then roll up the face after compression thus creating spin. If you took a full swing with your putter how high would the ball lift in the air, would making a divot change the height of that shot?

[bulldog2k]

Re: Why can't I take divots

Is it harder (if not impossible) to take a divot with a larger/heavy soled club?

[BrianW]

Re: Why can't I take divots

Is it harder (if not impossible) to take a divot with a larger/heavy soled club?

It is possible to make a divot with any club that has a leading edge and that's all clubs.

[bdbl]

Re: Why can't I take divots

It is possible to make a divot with any club that has a leading edge and that's all clubs.

Indeed and I've seen people take a divot with their driver off the tee - not deliberately though

More seriously I think that there is an implication - that I would agree with - in your original reply about ball and body position in that the swing is the same for all but specialised shots; its the set up that changes.

IMO this why when you start thinking about "sweeping" or "hitting down" a "driver swing" or an "iron swing" and change your swing to achieve it that things go wrong.

[BrianW]

Re: Why can't I take divots

Indeed and I've seen people take a divot with their driver off the tee - not deliberately though

More seriously I think that there is an implication - that I would agree with - in your original reply about ball and body position in that the swing is the same for all but specialised shots; its the set up that changes.

IMO this why when you start thinking about "sweeping" or "hitting down" a "driver swing" or an "iron swing" and change your swing to achieve it that things go wrong.

Hi Robin,

You only need to look at the teeing area of many par 5's and see the divots people make

I agree with your comments on using a similar swing for all clubs. The length of the club will automatically change the steepness of the swing plane, you only need to consider ball position and weight distribution.

[acq111]

Re: Why can't I take divots

Ok so I played yesterday and with my irons tried to take it back a little more upright and not so around my body. Hit it ok got the feel after a few strokes, but still not really any divots. There has to be something. I;m going to try that drill I think Cmays suggested. Hitting balls standing on my left leg with my right leg back (RH golfer). I think if I get my center of gravity a little further forward I will be there. I really want to fell a pure strike. I was double checking ball position also. That doesn't seem to be the case. I'm just not striking with a downward blow. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Otherwise thanks for all of your help guys.

Sincerey,

Nick Acquaviva