My Swing

[Neil18]

At last, I've sorted my backside out (and my PC) and here is my swing from down the line. View it at your leisure:

[slater170]

Re: My Swing

hi neil
as you know im no expert
but looks like a great swing to me

[Neil18]

Re: My Swing

Cheers Slats

[Martin Levac]

Re: My Swing

All good. What's the result in that video and what's the contact quality?

Would you like to improve on that or are you satisfied with your technique? If you want to improve, I can give a few pointers.

[Neil18]

Re: My Swing

Hi Martin,

The result in the video is the culmination of 4 months hard work and research, coupled with the best method (in my opinion) of swinging, truly swinging, a golf club. The Ernest Jones method.

The result is a free swinging motion of the hands and arms in order to swing the club head in its' natural arc. Any interference from my body to attempt to push, pull, twist, throw or tense in any way destroys the inate power of the swinging arc. Centrifugal force is the greatest force a human body can produce, if you let it.

When pure, the strike is at the centre of the clubface. When impure, the balls deviation from its' intended flight path is minimal at best, and manageable at worst.

It's damn windy in the UK at the moment and I was hitting a repetitive draw into the wind. When the strike was sweet it was carrying 165. Around 150 when not.

The development from here as far as I am concerned is the continual "switching off" of my concious effort and to continually learn how to allow the club to reach maximum speed at the apex of the arc. I have a few things that you may have seen which are quite probably born of my older, less efficient body/hip movements which will gradually seep away with practice. And that practice will purely be in learning how to time the strike with maximaum speed.

I am hoping in my diligence, that anything you wish to point out are things of which I am already aware. Hopefully it will bring about a discussion about it all and uncover where I've been and whre I'm trying to get to.

However, I don't profess to know it all, and I'm all ears!

[GoNavy]

Re: My Swing

Is that really you Neil, because in my opinion that is a professional quality golf swing. Too have a 5 handicap with that swing is a crime, you need to work on your chipping and putting, because there is nothing wrong with that swing in the video. What ever you are working on STOP, because you're there, doing anything else will just screwup a great swing.

[Neil18]

Re: My Swing

Very very much obliged for your kind comments Gonavy.

Unfortunately I have not played in many competitions in the last 8 months in order to reduce my handicap.

I did play in a county competition last week and shot to my handicap in trying conditions. To give you some idea, I had 25 putts for 18 holes, including one 3 putt, so my short game is in very decent shape. I was simply lacking the ability to place my ball in the spots I wished to place the ball.

Now, I must admit, I do feel armed and I shall not be practicng anything other in my full swing than timing the ball. Short game, here I come.

[slater170]

Re: My Swing

"Is that really you Neil, because in my opinion that is a professional quality golf swing. Too have a 5 handicap with that swing is a crime, you need to work on your chipping and putting, because there is nothing wrong with that swing in the video. What ever you are working on STOP, because you're there, doing anything else will just screwup a great swing."

maybe i know more than i think i do!

[vp27519]

Re: My Swing

Nice Neil,

Now what are you long and short term goals?

[Timothy Slaught]

Re: My Swing

Neil:

May I ask what grip pressure you employ on the club. On a scale of 1-10 with 10 being as tight as you can hold it? Also, do you use, or attemtp to use the same amount of pressure on all shots.

I have been working on keeping a moderate amount of pressure (about 4 on the scale) lately versus my old 9 "near death grip". I am finally able to swing the club on the arc I desire without manipulation of my hands and wrists. I feel I am gaining control by not trying to control. Go figure.

Your swing by the way really looks good. You have that Tiger Woods finish. Was that by design?

Thanks.
Tim S

[Martin Levac]

Re: My Swing

As I said, it's all good. I think there is very little, if anything, to improve simply by looking at that video. Still, I think that there are certain concepts that could allow you to improve with control and perhaps with power but not so much.

Ben Hogan speaks of the long and short left thumb. It affects the amount of control we have over the club by determining the degree of movement we can put the club through, amongst other things. Anyway, the short thumb allows the greatest control, according to him. I agree. Below are the major differences between the short and long thumb, according to my own experience. Bear in mind that the goal of the short left thumb is greater control, not merely to shorten the left thumb. So if the short left thumb gives you less control, then don't do that and stick with what you got.

Long left thumb:

Club drops lower at the top of the backswing
Swing arc is narrower
Distance travelled by clubhead is shorter
Angle between left arm and club is narrower
Thus, movement between top-of-the-backswing and impact is longer
Acceleration is more violent and more difficult to control

Short left thumb:

Club drops higher at the top of the backswing
Swing arc is wider
Distance travelled by clubhead is longer
Angle between left arm and club is wider
Thus, movement between top-of-backswing and impact is shorter
Acceleration is smoother and easier to control


The concept that is difficult to accept is that the distance travelled by the clubhead is longer with the short left thumb. It's difficult to accept because we drop the club higher at the top. It's more natural to think that if we drop it lower, it will travel longer. The fact is that a wider arc will allow the clubhead to travel a longer distance, not a lower position at the top. This difference means greater control because we can accelerate the club to the same speed over a longer distance with less effort and thus with greater control. Alternatively, we could produce more speed but that's not what you called for.

It takes a little experimentation to get the proper short thumb to produce the best result. That's because the difference between long and short is subtle. I emphasize that the goal here is greater control, not merely a short left thumb. If you find an easier method to give you the same advantages that a short left thumb could give you, then use that instead. In my opinion, the greatest advantage in the list above is the longer distance travelled by the clubhead. The easiest way to do that for me is a wider swing arc. In my case, the short left thumb allows me to do that but I realise that it can't possibly do that for everybody.


Notes.

Since I started to train for strength, I've become able to do things I wasn't able to do before strength training. The short left thumb happens to be a lever to control the club. I've learned that it is that much easier to use the short left thumb with greater strength. So, if you happen to find it difficult to use that, I suggest you look into some strength training, at least for the hands and wrists.

If at some point you find it difficult to maintain the wider swing arc, experiment with a flat left wrist. A flat left wrist combined with a short left thumb will further restrict the movement possible between the left arm and the club. It will help maintain the wider swing arc.


Another point I noticed is that you hit the ball from a tee on that video. If the ball is on a tee, then it's possible to strike down at a steeper angle than otherwise. If you want a bit more spin or distance with an iron, experiment with a back ball placement when you strike it from a tee to take advantage of this possibility.

[Neil18]

Re: My Swing

Nice Neil,

Now what are you long and short term goals?

Long term goal = get as good as I can get and play competitively.

Short term goals = trust the swing, blitz my short game and have fun.

[Neil18]

Re: My Swing

Neil:

May I ask what grip pressure you employ on the club. On a scale of 1-10 with 10 being as tight as you can hold it? Also, do you use, or attemtp to use the same amount of pressure on all shots.

I have been working on keeping a moderate amount of pressure (about 4 on the scale) lately versus my old 9 "near death grip". I am finally able to swing the club on the arc I desire without manipulation of my hands and wrists. I feel I am gaining control by not trying to control. Go figure.

Your swing by the way really looks good. You have that Tiger Woods finish. Was that by design?

Thanks.
Tim S

I have followed the Ernie Els school of thought. He describes his grip as being the same as how you might hold a small bird. Hard enough so it can't get away, but loose enough that you don't squash it. I woud call it about a 3 out of 10. Most lies can be dealt with from this grip, except the ones that are sat down in thick rough. Then you just gotta hang on!

I have looked at many swings from Bobby Jones to Tiger Woods. I love Tigers symmetry, and I don't think there's anyone better through the ball in todays game. My follow through and finish has taken on a Tiger/Ernie mix. The swing has allowed me to properly let the club release, but Tigers finish is more over his shoulder with his hands closer to his left ear. I like the comparison though! Thanks!

[Neil18]

Re: My Swing

As I said, it's all good. I think there is very little, if anything, to improve simply by looking at that video. Still, I think that there are certain concepts that could allow you to improve with control and perhaps with power but not so much.

Ben Hogan speaks of the long and short left thumb. It affects the amount of control we have over the club by determining the degree of movement we can put the club through, amongst other things. Anyway, the short thumb allows the greatest control, according to him. I agree. Below are the major differences between the short and long thumb, according to my own experience. Bear in mind that the goal of the short left thumb is greater control, not merely to shorten the left thumb. So if the short left thumb gives you less control, then don't do that and stick with what you got.

Long left thumb:

Club drops lower at the top of the backswing
Swing arc is narrower
Distance travelled by clubhead is shorter
Angle between left arm and club is narrower
Thus, movement between top-of-the-backswing and impact is longer
Acceleration is more violent and more difficult to control

Short left thumb:

Club drops higher at the top of the backswing
Swing arc is wider
Distance travelled by clubhead is longer
Angle between left arm and club is wider
Thus, movement between top-of-backswing and impact is shorter
Acceleration is smoother and easier to control


The concept that is difficult to accept is that the distance travelled by the clubhead is longer with the short left thumb. It's difficult to accept because we drop the club higher at the top. It's more natural to think that if we drop it lower, it will travel longer. The fact is that a wider arc will allow the clubhead to travel a longer distance, not a lower position at the top. This difference means greater control because we can accelerate the club to the same speed over a longer distance with less effort and thus with greater control. Alternatively, we could produce more speed but that's not what you called for.

It takes a little experimentation to get the proper short thumb to produce the best result. That's because the difference between long and short is subtle. I emphasize that the goal here is greater control, not merely a short left thumb. If you find an easier method to give you the same advantages that a short left thumb could give you, then use that instead. In my opinion, the greatest advantage in the list above is the longer distance travelled by the clubhead. The easiest way to do that for me is a wider swing arc. In my case, the short left thumb allows me to do that but I realise that it can't possibly do that for everybody.


Notes.

Since I started to train for strength, I've become able to do things I wasn't able to do before strength training. The short left thumb happens to be a lever to control the club. I've learned that it is that much easier to use the short left thumb with greater strength. So, if you happen to find it difficult to use that, I suggest you look into some strength training, at least for the hands and wrists.

If at some point you find it difficult to maintain the wider swing arc, experiment with a flat left wrist. A flat left wrist combined with a short left thumb will further restrict the movement possible between the left arm and the club. It will help maintain the wider swing arc.


Another point I noticed is that you hit the ball from a tee on that video. If the ball is on a tee, then it's possible to strike down at a steeper angle than otherwise. If you want a bit more spin or distance with an iron, experiment with a back ball placement when you strike it from a tee to take advantage of this possibility.

Martin,

I have experimented with the long left thumb and enjoyed it for a while. However, I have reverted to a shorter left thumb as I found that the longer a I made it, the more the club handle sat up toward my palm. Shortening the thumb kept it in my fingers and allowed the free wrist hinger I was after.

With regard to hitting off of a tee, I do that a lot with my mid - long irons (I'm hitting 5 iron in the vid). The matts at ranges are not ideal for longer clubs. Too unforgiving. My home course can be very windy so I vary my ball position. Back for lower shots with the flag at the back of the green, forward to floaters.

I too am now starting some strength and stamina work. The more natural strength I have about my arms, shoulders and core will allow me to produce more speed in the clubhead without trying. The more potential energy I have, the more will be transfered down to the clubhead.

[Rackster]

Re: My Swing

Great swing Neil.

Think I will invest in Ernie's book. Which copy did you have. It seems on Amazon there is a bit of confusion of which edition is which.