One Plane Swing and Coming Over the Top

[robf]

All:

This year I have gone to a one- plane swing. I took a lesson and the pro told me to work on my alignment and bend over more from the hip which I’ve done. He said my back swing is fine and when start my down swing fire the right side and try to hook it to make the ball go straight and I may even end up with a slight draw. Well all this has worked with my irons I am hitting them great, but my driving has suffered, I am slicing with the driver and I’ve been trying to figure it out.


At the range yesterday I discovered I’m coming across the ball (out-in path). I want to use the pump-it drill to promote more of an inside path, but since I’ve gone to a one plane swing more bent over at the waist and more of a rounded swing, does this drill still apply? Or is there some other drill that one planners use to fix such a problem.

Thank,

robf

[robf]

Re: One Plane Swing and Coming Over the Top

Cmay:
thanks

So it appears the one plane swinger doesn't execute the pump drill as prescribed by Michelle but rather hinges and unhinges his right wrist to get the same effect? Maybe I'm unhinging to early? Can you elaborate on this hinging and unhinging I don't believe I'm following.

I do understand that the one planer swings around the body.

robf

[robf]

Re: One Plane Swing and Coming Over the Top

I guess on the backswing the left palm face down due to the rolling if the left forearm. At the topof the swing then the clubface is at a 45 degree angle.

One then starts down rolling the right right forearm over the left. The club going around the body. Then the finish should be a mirror image of the backswing.

Is that right? It can't be that easy, can it?

robf

[pnearn]

Re: One Plane Swing and Coming Over the Top

Even in a 1PS the lower body has to move first and clear to allow the arms to come down the correct channel as the shoulders rotate. Try and feel as if you bump your hips to right field and hold your shoulders back for a little bit as you start down. This will lower your right shoulder a little bit (axis tilt), shift your weight and start your hips rotating. Then you can go through with those shoulders as hard as you like

If you just aggressively turn your shoulders from the top in a 1PS you will just roundhouse them and spin around your back leg. Big OTT move. The lower body still has to go first - something I dont think is taught all that well in these 1PS books

[robf]

Re: One Plane Swing and Coming Over the Top

So in a one plane swing do you think it is permissible to have a slight hip turn as the first move. Personally I concentrate on my core, this is, my belly button is the center I use it to turn somewhat agressively towards the target on my downswing (rotation is very important). For me this works well with my irons, but I do slice a little using my driver. Maybe I'm being a little lazy and not turning (rotating) agressively enough.

Trying to work that out.

rob

[golfndawg]

Re: One Plane Swing and Coming Over the Top

He He He, Me again.....

Backswing:

If one was to swing outside the line and then under the shaft angle at address and then up above it at the top.......What would that be? Useless? Bad wrist hinge?

[robf]

Re: One Plane Swing and Coming Over the Top

Mr.C:

Nicely put now all I need to do is execute.


Dawg:

Can you elaborate a little more. I believe your saying keep the back swing low and wide. Am I correct?

[golfndawg]

Re: One Plane Swing and Coming Over the Top

Mr.C:

Nicely put now all I need to do is execute.


Dawg:

Can you elaborate a little more. I believe your saying keep the back swing low and wide. Am I correct?

No,No,No:

I wasn't making a suggestion , I was saying that I believe that is what I do.....A little ott. I was just chiming in.

[robf]

Re: One Plane Swing and Coming Over the Top

Oh, Ok Got it, I misunderstood. This OTT is really tough to fix especially with the long clubs - i.e. driver.

It's a challenge, I guess that's part of the allure of the game.

[golfndawg]

Re: One Plane Swing and Coming Over the Top

Dawg:

The question above, can you go out to in and this and that, I can make circles on the way back and strike the ball, but that is no way to play, too many plane changes.
__________________
Golfone


I swing a different way everyday almost, inside out ,outside in,straight back and straight through....Like it says in my journal -trying to be consistant..But the ott move has been with me for awhile.Sometimes it doesn't feel like it and hit the ball pretty good-but it's still there....Going to hit balls tomorrow with that feeling from the p.m......Trying to rotate the lower body with the shoulders still back or closed and if I do it right I can see how the torso crunch comes into play ,(instead of the shoulders open on the downswing while the hips are square...)<<<<<OTT

[robf]

Re: One Plane Swing and Coming Over the Top

Dawg:

You're scores are very good inspite of your OTT. How bad is your over the top? Is it real severe -i.e banana balls or mild fades.

Also, from you're posts it sounds like you're a 2 planer. Could it be some alignment issues and you're making compensations your not aware of and a result you're hitting across the ball?


robf

[golfndawg]

Re: One Plane Swing and Coming Over the Top

Dawg:

You're scores are very good inspite of your OTT. How bad is your over the top? Is it real severe -i.e banana balls or mild fades.

Also, from you're posts it sounds like you're a 2 planer. Could it be some alignment issues and you're making compensations your not aware of and a result you're hitting across the ball?


robf

Hey

Yea I've put together a swing that has gotten me some pretty good scores and pretty proud of it........But it's not by the book which is ok...But the problem with a homeade swing -when something goes wrong you don't know where to look.(or at least I don't)....My OTT is more of a shoulder kick out with a strong grip which somehow I get back to square by throwing my hands to the right-but not the rotation that I want.....Am working on that tonite....I have a thread on my swing from awhile back ..called (what's wrong with this picture)....Some things have changed but some have not....Anyway I mostly hit a nice little draw with my swing ,really not sure how I do it but if I was to guess -it's an ott with a hooded face with the arms thrown out instead of cutting across the ball...There's holes that require a fade and those are the one's where I can put up big number from the tee....

P.S.
Never mind if you or someone was going to look at that url....Because it said I removed it(which I didn't) and now there's something on it instead...I don't know what the **** is going on.

[golfndawg]

Re: One Plane Swing and Coming Over the Top

Dawg:

Is a good example of trying to mix and match swing concepts. Just will not work.

Rotation, you must have rotated something in the backswing to rotate in the downswing. If the wheel on the car is not turning, it is not rotating.

When you take a strong grip on the club you open the clubface at address for 2 reasons.

1. That is your rotation that is needed in the downswing to rotate the clubface back to square.

2. It allows you to swing to the inside w/o rotating the hands, arms, wrist and club any further.

On the downswing, you will feel the arms and hands coming out to the right and trying to bring them to the inside does not work.

This is the upper body shoulder swing. The clubface is rotating for you.

Take the same strong grip, bring the club up to waist high and then allow the hands and arms to lift straight up then we are going to use the lower body action, the bump out on the downswing. The hands move slightly inwards from the shoulder turn in the backswing and not from bringing them in with the arms and hands from having an open clubface at address.

Also when we swing the arms straight up in the backswing at address we want the club squared to the ball because the forearms and hands are providing rotation in the backswing and if needed they can rotate back in the downswing.

I am dumb, only have 2 brain cells, gave the rest of them to my children, but I do not understand what is so hard to understand, if you have 1 car 100 miles from the finish line and the second car 500 miles further back from the finish line, the one that is further back is going to need to speed up to win the race to the finish line, it must travel faster then our car who started a 100 miles from the finish line.

In golf the further we swing the hands and arms around the body, behind us places us further from the finish line and we need to speed the swing up with shoulder rotation.

Right Handers?Left Reverse.

Sit in your chair and bring the palm of the left hand over to the right shoulder.

The forearm and hand is at the 45 degree angle when we travel to the inside with the arm and hand. It is traveling more to the inside then if we held the left palm in line with the right shoulder and 16 inches away from/out in front and from that position turn the left shoulder around to bring the hand to the inside.

Simple Concepts:

What turns more around the body in the backswing the more that needs to return in the downswing, we are replacing what we took away in the backswing.

What turns less around the body, the less we need to replace in the downswing.

Mr.C

Are you saying that I need have an open face at address with a strong grip? cause if it is ,I haven't been doing it

P.S.
I am dumb too (with only 2 cells) but I did not give any away.....lol
This the hardest thing I have ever done in my life so far and I will not give up.

[robf]

Re: One Plane Swing and Coming Over the Top

Dawg:

I assuming your having trouble with your driver. Did you try ball position that Ben Hogan advocated. That is, the ball stays in the same position you just adjust your stance. Here's an example:


With the driver the stance is more closed, this is also true with the long irons. Maybe this technique could help you're fade.

Just some thoughts.

robf.

PS there is a better illustration of this in Hogan's Modern Fundementals - page 125

The attached I got from the internet.

[golfndawg]

Re: One Plane Swing and Coming Over the Top

Dawg:

Sent me an e-mail on an article he is working from and it is for the driver and he is using the same concept for his swings with all the clubs from what I gather.

If he would post the article and also what I wrote, that wouldbe of great benifit. Just the Article is Ok.

I would, but I deleted the e-mail too soon by mistake.

They have a person (2 Plane Upright Swinger) that has rotated all his weight to the back leg that is using a driver and in the downswing he is correct in saying the 1st move should not be turning the shoulders in the downswing, but to rotate the hips around.

In the 2 Plane Swing and using a driver you can rotate the hips around and allow the hands to drop down which keeps the weight on the back leg longer and the head behind the ball.

The reason being if he made a lateral move and shift most of the weight over to the left leg in the downswing he would then hit down on the ball.

The clubface starts to lift up to make impact and the rest of the weight starts to transfer to the left leg when rotating the hips around. One method of producing upper body lag when using a driver and a 2 Plane upright Swing.

Dawg. Do not give up, we just need to educate you and the 2 brain cells like me will start to fly and it willbe like the 4th of July in your head. Something in your head will ring a bell and set off an explosion.

If you want to play the strong grip and have a 1 Plane Swing it would help to have the clubface open at address. Short irons turn/point the butt end of the club towards the left leg, longer ones, point the butt end of the club is just outside the left leg.

That article is so misleading and lack details.

Yes if you swung the club back into the backswing on any plane you would not want to turn the shoulders around as the 1st move or action, we need to get the hands lower and then we can rotate or go into your downward swing for a 2 Plane Swing.

2 Plane Swing:

You swing to the top of the backswing and you must have a pulling down action and that action can come from bumping the left hip out or pulling the arms or hands down.

Now that person has a upright swing, but he is rotating the hips around because he is speaking on how to hit a driver.

When the weight is on the left leg you hit downwards and make a divot.

So this person swings to the top of his backswing transfering most of the weigt to the back leg, say 80%.

Any lateral movement to the left would load up the left leg with weight and he would hit the driver downwards.

To prevent the weight transfer to the left he rotates the hips keeping the weight on the right leg and the head behind.

As he rotates the hips that forces the hands down.

The exception is with the driver in a 2 Plane Upright Swing.

In a 1 plane Swing you can start with shoulder rotation, but there also must be the throwing outward of the right hand which also drops the hands down into the downswing and that just happens from swinging back in the proper manner and also allowing the right shoulder to start the downswing and not the left shoulder. The right shoulder going outwards will drop which lowers the arms and hands.

http://www.golfonline.com/golfonline...h0bWw=,00.html